Jose Martinez thread

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  • #79965
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Great great info, Bobby! However, I politely request that Danny Tartabull be removed from your infamous list of stone glovers, as I witnessed the man make two of the most miraculous catches that I have ever seen a right fielder make. Sadly, “The TBull” ranks #1 on a list that no sane man would ever desire to see his name….. he is Public Enemy #1 on Los Angeles’ deadbeat dad list.

    #80036
    AvatarWiley
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    So Bob Reed, is Jose Martinez worse then Lonnie Smith in negative runs???

    #80037
    AvatarBob Reed
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    In awfulness, Jose beats Skates hands down, Wiley. Lonnie Smith was only 31 runs below average for his career per Fangraphs. And rather stunningly just minus 23 at Baseball-Reference.

    Lonnie was a pretty idiosyncratic defender. Lots of errors, but lots of assists. And he covered quite a bit of ground when he wasn’t slipping. I guess (for the non-AARP members reading this) you could liken him to Vlad Guerrero, at least the young version of Vlad — although I’d wager Vlad’s miscues were mostly of the throwing variety. Not what you’d call good glovemen, but certainly entertaining!

    And CC, I’d say that Brian summed it up well. According to the B-Ref site, it goes like this:

    1882 St. Louis Brown Stockings
    1883-1898 Browns
    1899 Perfectos
    1900-infinity Cardinals

    Bob Caruthers led the franchise with three straight double-digit WAR seasons (1885-87), before Silver King’s big year of course.

    I will mentally strike Tartabull from the list, Pugs. Partly for you, partly for the sake of his Seinfeld legacy. Thanks to George Costanza, I smile when I hear Tartabull’s name, deadbeat or not.

    #82575
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Instead of a trade, Jose Martinez gets a two-year contract extension. More info coming…

    #82580
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #82582
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Given the state of Jose’s home country and family situation, the financial stability is probably a very good thing for Mr Martinez. Seems like one of those deals that could work out well all the way around, and I’m glad they worked it out.

    #82583
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    When all is said and done, all it does is avoid his first year of arbitration next off-season. Not a major extension by any stretch. One could argue the cost certainty next season makes him slightly more attractive in trade.

    As I noted in the article, because he was such a late bloomer, Martinez will not be eligible for the big bucks in free agency until he will be too old to warrant a big contract. Still, his salary will escalate through his remaining arbitration years in 2021 and 2022, though the latter year could be affected by a new labor agreement.

    #82591
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    There was another factor, interest from a Japanese club. The above article has also been updated with the salary amount.

    #82601
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Seems slightly high but certainly not back breaking. Pham was a 5 WAR player (2 year average) and got $3.9. Jose will be lucky to be a 2.5 WAR player yet got $2.6 plus incentives (for 1st arb year) and he got it guaranteed against injury or flop .

    #82605
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Pham 4.67mil those same two seasons.

    #82611
    Avatar1982 willie
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    seems like the cardinals are getting the most benefit here. he probably would have gotten more in arbitration. plus placing the incentives based on plate appearances is wrong since he doesn’t really have control over that. but he signed the deal so that’s that.

    #82613
    AvatarCardinal in France
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    I’ve always liked the goofy guy with the big bat. Defensive liabilities notwithstanding, I’m glad we’re going to have him around for the next couple of years.

    #82614
    Avatargscottar
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    This is a good deal for both parties. Jose gets a little financial security and the Cardinals solidify some much needed insurance for the corner OF spots while also sending a message to the rest of the league that Jose is not going to be traded away for nothing.

    I love this quote by Jose in the PD:

    In Golden Rule fashion, Martinez said, “When you treat people like family, people treat you like family. That appreciation was great.

    Tommy Pham should take note.

    #82615
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Great quote. Thank you for sharing it.

    #82631
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    I always thought Jose Martinez was going to be traded. Most likely to the AL where he could DH since he cant field.

    With Goldschmidt at 1B now, and Fowler/O’Neill the likely RF candidates, what do we do with Martinez? The occasional spot starter in RF or at 1B? And a late inning pinch-hitter? Or is he still on the trade block?

    r/Rat

    #82636
    Avatargscottar
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    Fowler regaining his old form is hardly a given, perhaps even an improbability.

    Ozuna’s arm strength is still a mystery and he is under contract for only one year.

    The trade market for JMart was obviously underwhelming.

    Keeping him around makes sense.

    #82688
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    No one knows how many calls the boys upstairs got regarding JoMartinez, I’m just glad he is still in a Cardinal’s uniform. I have a sense of optimism when he steps up to the plate.

    #82729
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Brian, could you explain more about how J.Martinez could sign with a Japanese team even tbough he is not a FA? Can the Cards be forced to sell his rights?

    #82747
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Glad Martinez got a decent deal as he seems like a great guy, and is an effective weapon off the bench. He gives a little depth as well, but as has been discussed many times you really do not want him on the field. The NL DH won’t happen until the next agreement takes hold at the earliest, so he will not be our DH.

    Back a few years ago when we did the top 40 all-time Cardinals players, I had Carruthers on my list. He would probably still be there, as I don’t think that many of the later Redbirds would have dramatically change the pecking order. But then I do not even have that list anymore, so doing that again might result in some changes. My top four are pretty well locked in, Musial, Hornsby, Pujols, Gibson. I have a four-card display item where you can put in four baseball cards, and cards of those four are in it.

    #82748
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    cc, I tried to explain it in my article. The net is that the Cards were not required to do anything. They control Martinez’ rights through 2022.

    There is another motivating factor in granting this extension now. While the Cardinals would not likely have been motivated to release Martinez from his commitment to them to play overseas, it is suggested this deal was crafted to pay him more than he would have received from the Cardinals otherwise to reflect the overseas offer, rumored to be from a Japanese club.

    Clearly, the Cardinals were not looking to just get rid of Martinez, so selling his contract overseas would not have helped the club. The cost-certainty of his new deal, including potentially more money up front in 2019, likely helps Martinez feel better about missing out on perhaps making more money overseas.

    Cardinals Announce Two-Year Deal with Jose Martinez

    #82753
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Sorry, bikemike, but the board top 40 discussion was lost in the great Scout purge.

    Here is how we did the site list in 2007. (The link is also in the red menu bar on the left.)

    https://247sports.com/mlb/cardinals/Article/St-Louis-Cardinals-All-Time-Top-40-104391159

    #82755
    AvatarCariocaCardinal
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    Brian, did you change your article wording or did I just misread it a couple of days ago? I tbought you said originally it was to keep Martinez from pursueing overseas opportunities.

    The idea that they would let the idea of how much he could earn as a FA influence what they pay him seems non-sensical. No different than Pham last year.

    #82764
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    In my haste to publish, I realized I did not initially word it as clearly as I had intended. That became obvious when I re-read it, so I did clean up my wording.

    I am sure the Cards already know about what Martinez will be worth as an arb1 player next year. I also imagine they listened to what his agent told them he could make in Japan this year and next. And even though they gave him the first amount (plus his 2019 renewed salary), they probably presented it in relation to the Japan offer to make him feel good about having to stay. We did hear they re-balanced the money to give him more this year than he would have gotten as a pre-arb player. Likely sleeves out of the vest in the two-year total. (I haven’t seen the incentives listed yet, though.)

    This is speculation, of course, as no one other than the Cards and his agent know how they actually negotiated the deal.

    Bottom line, I’ve seen no one suggest that Martinez is being overpaid in this deal. Unless that is the case, why be concerned about how they got there?

    #82777
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    I had always just assumed a foreign league would contact the club controlling a players rights.

    So in this case the foreign club contacted the players agent? And then the controlling club hears about it from the players agent?

    Tampering is the first thing that comes to mind, and this seems like a backwards way to do business. Is this the norm?

    #82783
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I don’t know the exact sequence, jj, but step back and think about it from the practical perspective. A Japanese League team isn’t going to inquire about every player under contract in the US. 99.99% of the time it would be wasted effort.

    In this case, everyone knew Martinez was on the trade block. Seems to me if I was a Japanese team, I would ask the agent if the player would have any interest in going overseas before bothering to try to negotiate with the current team for his rights. If Martinez was against the idea, it stops right there. It is not like the Cards would sell his rights to Japan even if he didn’t want to go. But, if he could be interested, then the two teams could talk.

    When all is said and done, who spoke to who first doesn’t matter because the Cards control his rights. Everyone understands they have the hammer.

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