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So – when he was hired to manage the team I wasn’t a fan of the decision. I thought he was too young and unproven to be given the job – and that was true at the time.
However, he is now finishing up his 4th season as manager so he’s 4 years older and has 4 years of on the job experience.
I’ve watched him manage an underwhelming roster for the past three years and he’s probably done about as good as anyone would have.
Before we toss him out on his ass id like to see what he could do with a very good roster. In my experience most managers are as good or bad as the roster they are handed.
I would not riot if he’s canned but it won’t bother me if he’s retained.
If he’s handed a hugely upgraded roster in 2027 and finishes 3rd, 8-10 games off the pace then yeah – time to go.
Anyhow just my two cents – the lad has kind of grown in me, lol.
Would a new manager and coaching staff turn the 2026 Cardinals into contenders? Unless Bloom believes coaching is a major problem that needs immediate attention, Marmol will be back to finish his contract.
I also feel that Marmol will be back in 2026. The Cardinals don’t like to eat money andt hey are not going to be a contender next year so why bring in a “better” manager if you aren’t going to upgrade the roster in a substantial way?
As I have said before I don’t view him as a great manager but the manager does not set the roster and the rosters he has had to deal with have been half baked.
We can bring in the new guy when we are ready to win. You hire the best race car driver to drive a porsche not a pinto.
Marmol is as good as gone. They’ll eat his last year. No way that the Bloom era is ushered in with Mo’s boy manning the top step of the dugout. The strong stench of losing needs to be refreshed.
No way that the Bloom era is ushered in with Mo’s boy manning the top step of the dugout.
Lets hope so. If Shildt can be fired for philosophical differences, so can Marmol. If there are no philosophical differences, we’re doomed.
Hopefully Bloom discussed this type of issue with Junior prior to and contingent upon his accepting employment. Shaping culture and turning a page is critical.
They know they’ll never win anything with the guy they have, but I’m not sure they care enough to get rid of him before his terms are satisfied. They may keep him around for another season simply to show Cardinal fans that they can. That’ll show everyone who’s boss.
“I’ve watched him manage an underwhelming roster for the past three years and he’s probably done about as good as anyone would have.”
“…the rosters he has had to deal with have been half baked.”
Most people who frequent this website know that I despise Ollie Marmol, as a person and manager. Okay, I despise the manager and merely dislike the person. Anyway I won’t make any claim to disinterested objectivity. And don’t worry, I won’t bore you with a lengthy itemized list of Marmol’s managerial blunders.
But I disagree in the strongest possible terms with the two bolded statements, and I believe a brief (disinterested and objective) review of 2023 and 2024 preseason expectations should illustrate why. First, the Cardinals were decisively favored to win their division in 2023, when Ollie Marmol led them to last place. Per this CBS link, in 2023 the Cards had a preseason Vegas line of 89 wins, tied for the 8th-best number in MLB. Second best in the N.L. Central was Milwaukee (84.5). Next were cubs (78), Reds (67.5), and the Bucs (66). So entering the 2023 season, the Cards were not only favored to win the division, they were considered more than 20 games better than Cincy and Pitt — two of the teams they wound up behind. Link: https://www.cbssports.com/mlb/news/mlb-picks-every-teams-2023-season-win-total-projection-plus-eight-best-bets/
Then in 2024 the Redbirds entered the regular season as N.L. Central co-favorites with the cubs at 84.5 wins on the BetMGM over/under totals board. The Reds were barely behind at 82.5, then the Brewers (76.5) and Pirates (75.5). Link: https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/mlb/mlb-team-betting-preview-predictions-bm23/
I think it’s reasonable to argue that if a team is favored or co-favored by Vegas to win their division, as the Birds were in both 2023 and 2024, then by definition they have a roster sufficient to do so. Barring an inordinate number of injuries, of course. (The Cards have in fact been one of MLB’s healthier teams over the past few years, so no excuse for the manager there.)
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As for the offseason, I wish I could agree with you, Pugs, about Ollie being let go. But the DeWitts are now such Ebenezeresque cheapskates — team payroll ranks roughly 20th in MLB now despite the club ranking 12th in revenue in 2024 — that I can’t see them paying anyone not to manage this team. I think Marmol gets another year. Another irrelevant, dreary year. And yeah, it matters. It matters a lot. Because this roster is not overflowing with established steady veterans. Instead it has numerous young and young-ish hitters and pitchers who could and should be developing right now — and they aren’t. Because of the MLB hitting and pitching coaches, and most especially because of the manager.
I think some forgot that Marmol received a two-year contract extension AFTER the 2023 last-place finish. So it is abundantly clear they did not blame that historically bad season on him. Like it or not, that is what happened.
Let’s also not forget whose money Bloom will be spending.
In the past 18 months Bill has spent 2mil on Maton, but sold off 6.5mil of contracts at this past deadline. He wants every penny back.
I think some forgot that Marmol received a two-year contract extension AFTER the 2023 last-place finish. So it is abundantly clear they did not blame that historically bad season on him. Like it or not, that is what happened.
I consider that irrelevant because when the bottom line went south the magic beans went out the window. Mo out, Bloom in.
The manager does not create the roster. The manager does not create the roster. The manager does not create roster.
We can create a love child between Tony LaRussa, Whitey Herzog, Joe Torre, Walter Alston, Connie Mack, Sparky Anderson, and Bruce Bochy and they are not going to win with an inadequate roster. I am amazed at how that is not obvious.
The manager does not create the roster. The manager does not create the roster. The manager does not create roster.
We can create a love child between Tony LaRussa, Whitey Herzog, Joe Torre, Walter Alston, Connie Mack, Sparky Anderson, and Bruce Bochy and they are not going to win with an inadequate roster. I am amazed at how that is not obvious.
Agreed. This year’s roster is so-so. Even a great manager with great coaches wouldn’t win more than 85-87 games unless luck was on his side. But the St. Louis Cardinals roster for 2023 and 2024 was as strong as any in the Central division. Please see previous post.
The question for me is, after 2026 and presumably yet another year of missing the playoffs, will ownership bite the bullet and invest 5-6 million per year on an established, highly successful veteran MLB manager — i.e., spend money to make money via excellent baseball? Or will they again go cheap and promote from within? I’d be fine with two-time Triple-A champ Stubby Clapp, but nobody else currently in the organization is worthy of the job I don’t think.
You wonder if Bloom told DeWitt that accepting the job meant he could change the manager regardless of contract status.
From what we hear, not many insiders think muck of Marmol. Even that poll of players asking who they would not want to play for had Ollie as the guy most likely to be chosen.
In hindsight, the blunder that sealed the tarnish on Mo’s legacy was the weird firing of Shildt. When ever you make a decision like that, which was essentially “yeah you won for us, but we don’t like the way you won”, you are taking a huge risk.
Schildt had to have wanted starting pitching. Bill wasn’t and didn’t buy any. Bill stayed in-house until he had to eventually go buy three-fifths of a rotation to save face. The philosophical difference w/Schildt was Bills player budget, imo. That ones not on Mo the messanger, not for me.
You can be entirely certain of one thing. Unlike Mike Schildt, Mike Matheny, TLR and Joe Torre, the Cardinals will be the last Big League team that the little whiz-kid ever manages. I don’t envision him situated on anyone’s top step other than possibly the dugout of a junior college women’s softball squad.
And, in my view, the precept that the manager doesn’t create the roster is far from being ironclad. A manager with the sort of character that I feel is required to lead his team to success demands to be afforded a significant amount of input and control over the type of players he’s been charged to lead. Every quality Big League manager that I can think of had a substantial amount of control regarding the various pieces of his roster.
In the modern game the manager probably gets to provide some input on roster decisions but they do not get final say so. Not even close. And that is industry wide not just with the Cardinals. This is a top down industry ran by the spreadsheet guys.
The Cardinals have only hired rookie managers since the end of the 2011 season. It is obvious that they have not wanted an experienced manager because I am sure they could have chosen one if they wanted. They bypassed Terry Francona and hired Matheny instead which was just brilliant.
Do we think this will be different under Bloom? Only if BDW gives him that authority which we do not know the answer to that. And like I have mentioned before does it make sense to bring in a big name manager when you are not prepared to put a big time roster on the field. Is winning 77 games instead of 75 next year that important especially since the current guy is still under contract?
They’re going to drop Oli like a hot potato. If I may, I would like all of you whom think Oli is coming back to simply sit back and think about it for a minute or two. Now don’t concentrate solely on his poor body of work as Cardinals skipper these past 4 years. There’s a new sheriff in town and this sheriff is definitely going to be taking no prisoners……he’s going to jettison them out onto the dusty trail on one way tickets, with Oli being the first to go. If Bloom were to keep Oli another year, what would that say to the fans. Right out of the gate, Bloom is going to want to be seen as a man of action whom doesn’t tolerate mediocrity, let alone losing. I would say Oli legitimately has about a 5% chance of managing the Cadinals next year. We’re at the point of not pondering Oli’s fate, but rather whom his successor is going to be.
Obviously a field manager isn’t afforded what some would term the final say concerning roster construction, but it’s my best guess that any manager worth his salt demands that he be afforded a substantial amount of both input and leverage regarding the construction of his roster. It would also be my best guess that any manager worth his salt would refuse employment with an organization that wouldn’t allow him a substantial amount of control. He’d simply say, “Thanks, but no thanks” and offer up his services to a team that wanted a winner as opposed to a lackey.
You might be right Pugs although I would suggest that we still have the same sheriff but we will have a new deputy sheriff. Andy is still around but we have replaced Barney.
LoL Scotty……the only poster here whom loves the Mayberry gang references more than myself is the esteemed BicycleMike.
Good call, Pugs! As soon as I read that line I thought, “Oh, so we are moving on to the color episodes with Warren as the new deputy.” “Yeah-huh-yeah-huh-yeah-huh”.
I always thought Jack Burns got short-changed as Warren. He did not even survive his first season I don’t think. But he was a funny character and I wish they had kept him on. Obviously there would never be another Barney Fife, but Jack Burns brought a different approach that I thought worked well. You never know how things went behind the scenes though.
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