- This topic has 53 replies, 24 voices, and was last updated 3 years, 9 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
Assuming Yadi is not going to change his mind, and retires, I think the Cards should try a combination of Knizner, Rodriguez, and Herrera, with Herrera being the choice, if he proves ready. If no one steps up, then maybe look at a trade next summer.
Of the current players in the organization IMO there are 3 that deserve a chance to win the job.
1. Andrew Knizner-I would like to see him get the first shot and I think he is capable.
2. Ivan Herrara-He is a top prospect but has played very little at the MLB level so I don’t know what to think of him.
3. Austin Allen-He is a 28 yr. old LH hitter. I like LH hitting catchers as back-up to a RH starter.Contreras hasn’t been playing much at catcher for the Cubs. For instance, him and Yadier have caught about the same amount of innings this year.
I do like Ivan Herrera as the long-term replacement. He improved from his .753 OPS (104 wRC+) in AA as a 21-yr old to a .787 OPS (115 wRC+) in AAA as a 22-yr old.
Given that, I like the idea of a free agent catcher for 2022 as the starter with Knizner as the backup and Herrera ready for injuries. If one of the guys isn’t producing by June/July, Herrera can come up at that point.
Here’s the thing. Even at 40 years old, Molina is the 9th best defensive CA in baseball. There isn’t any free agent catchers close to him this year, but Sanchez, Narvaez, and Vazquez are in the ballpark.
Given that, Those would be the 3 I would like at.
Offensively, they rank as Vazquez, Sanchez, Narvaez. Defensively, they rank Vazquez, Narvaez, then a drop-off to Sanchez.Sanchez has the highest potential for offense, being a multi-30 HR guy and the most risk of hitting sub-.200.
Age-wise, Sanchez will be 30, Narvaez will be 31, and Vazquez will be 32.
I think I go with Vazquez as the #1 option since both he and Narvaez are lifetime .260-ish hitters. Narvaez as the #2 option. Go with Sanchez if you really like the internal options.
GameCard…I think the starting C job is Knizner’s unless he completely tanks in ST’ing of ’23. He’s been around for 4 season’s and only accumulated 505 PA’s. I think he gets his chance next season. I hope he makes the best of it. I also don’t at all think the Cardinals have any intention of either signing a FA catcher or sacrificing anything that could be reasonably viewed as an asset for a C via a trade.
DeJong for Grandal
DeJong could possibly play 2B for them or be utility IF. He’s from Chicago area. 2023 is owed $9.16 million, 2024 $12.5 million option with $2 million buy out, 2025 $15 million option with $1 million buy out. Total is $12.16.
Grandal will be 34 on the last year of his contact at $18.25 million. He’s having a bad year at the plate, but only a year removed from an career above average hitter.Gives Herrera another year of regular AB in AAA and working on defense, could keep a guy like Austin Allen around for further veteran experience. Don’t know what it would mean for a guy like Julio Rodriguez. If they went with Herrera and Knizner at the MLB level, the Julio could get the AAA playing time and have a veteran there with him for sure for depth.
Watch the pitchers’ body language when they deal to Herrara, nobody seems to like his “style”, watching the Memphis staff when Pages, Coulter or Allen are in, the demeanor is entirely different. Herrera’s talent needs to honed, but his “attitude” seems to need adjustment, he has a long way to go before he becomes the next “Yadi”! I also think Kizner could do well as a starter if given the opportunity…
We will have a poor season from the catcher imo if we go with just Knizner. That is far too risky. And that is also why I like Herrera getting at least another half-year at AAA.
In my opinion Knizner is only useful as a backup. Herrera is hopefully/probably the long term solution but we have no reason to believe he is ready to be the everyday guy right now. Going with the two of them seems like a roll of the dice.
I am with Rat on this one. I would go big and go after Contreras. At a minimum we should sign a veteran stopgap. Catcher has been a black hole in our lineup all year and we don’t need automatic outs.
gscottar…I’d go big too, but it’s not my money and I don’t forsee the Cardinals forgoing their practical option of getting a look at Knizner as the primary C next season. I hope I’m wrong.
If Pages can OPS .700 at AAA he will be anoited the long term catcher solution until he proves he cant hit enough tô hold the job. He is the best defensive/game caller/pitch framer of the bunch.
The only “go big” I do that might be available is Sean Murphy. No Contreras. Will Smith isn’t going anywhere. But I also think Sean Murphy is going to take a JT Realmuto type trade.
Realmuto was traded from Miami to Philadelphia in 2019 prior to his age 28 season. Prior to the trade he signed to avoid his 1st year arbitration. In 2020 lost arbitration. Then signed the biggest contract ever by a catcher to avoid his last year of arbitration in 2021 and lock him down through 2025. So at the time of trade was 28 years old, 3 years of team control still via arbitration, coming off a 126 OPS+ year, 116 OPS+ 3 year ago, and highly regarded defense.
Murphy will be 28 in a few weeks, so will be 28 the majority of next season, this off season will be his first arbitration year, 122 OPS+ this season, 113 OPS+ 3 year avg (1 year was the short 2020 season), and highly regarded defense.
It took Sixto Sanchez. Jorge Alfaro, Will Stewart, and international slot money. I know the trade hasn’t turned out for Miami. But at the end of 2018 Philadelphia #1 prospect was Sanchez, Alfaro was #7 (and previously MLB top 100), Stewart wasn’t in their top 30. Side note JoJo Romero was ranked #9. Sliding them into Miami’s rankings Alfaro had lost his “prospect” tag by being in the majors, Sanchez was Miami’s #1, Stewart was their #22 (Alcantara #5, Gallen #19, Austin Dean #27)
I don’t think Oakland would have interest I’m Herrera either with 3 of their top 5 prospects being catchers and 1 of them ready and why they’d be willing to move Murphy to make room for him.I think I go with Vazquez as the #1 option since both he and Narvaez are lifetime .260-ish hitters. Narvaez as the #2 option. Go with Sanchez if you really like the internal options.
Christian Vazquez is the only 1 of the 3 I’d even consider. But I think he commands a multi year deal. Defensively he’s good, solid with the bat. I don’t care much for Omar Navarez. I could see Milw bringing him back and shopping Caratini. They could just let Navarez go and go with Caratini too. Herrera is as good, if not better than Navarez. As for Gary Sanchez. Hard no. I don’t know how he ranks defensively, but I can tell you I’ve seen him with my eyes. Good arm the rest of his game is BAD behind the plate. Signing Tyler Heineman is a better option, at least he can do magic. Keeping Austin Allen would be better.
Maybe we can swing a trade with KC for Salvador Perez although he will be 33 next year and still has three years and $64M left on his deal.
Gary Sanchez could probably be had on a one year deal to bridge the gap to Herrera. I know defense is important but it would be nice to get at least a little pop from the catcher’s spot.
Don’t need to bridge any gap if Knizner is the successful starting catcher. He doesn’t need to be a future Hall of Famer just a productive catcher.
There is nothing about Knizner that indicates that he’ll be a successful starting catcher. He’s a solid backup, which has value. But we should be aiming higher.
Love the Sal Perez idea…was thinking about it at the deadline, but obv. they werent going to do it then
Sal with Knizner while Hererra works more…and Knizner or Hererra start taking over more in 2024, PErez’s bat as just DH is well worth it so him transitioning out of full time catching could work
Offseason Moz special (Arenado and Goldy) deals for Perez and Trout would be crazy and totally lean into this window while not really stunting any growth of players ready immediately
Trout
for
Burleson + Hudson + Mejia + Lottery ticketPerez
for
Yepez + Bedellre-up Montgomery
-Edman (SS), Trout (CF), Goldy (1), Arenado (3), Perez (C), Gorman (2), Carlson (RF), ONeill (LF), Donovan, Noot, DeJong, FA LHer, off-day starter)
-Mik, Monty, Jack, Matz, Libertore/Pallante/Reyes/Thompson/Woody/VerHagen
bench: Donovan, Noot, Knizner, FALH hitter, Gomez/DeLuzio/rotating need
pen: Helsley, Gallegos, Hicks, Genesis, Stratton, Jojo, Packy, Woody/nonstarter/Fa-vetthejager…There’s no question that it’s in John Mozeliak’s best interest to place Mike Trout in a Cardinal uniform and he knows this to be the genuine reality. He knows beyond a shadow of doubt, that if he can orchestrate a way to position Mike Trout as the Redbird CF’er, he will have a statue fully adorned with a bow-tie placed right next to Musial on Spruce St. in downtown StL! There’s no way Moe can turn that opportunity down…Haha!
I don’t want Perez either his defense or that contract. I’d like Murphy, but don’t want to see them give up what it would take to get him especially when Herrera wouldn’t be in the package. I think it’s either Herrera and Knizner with a AAAA guy, like Austin Allen, in AAA for depth or Knizner and a veteran on a 1 year deal and give Herrera another year at AAA.
We will have a poor season from the catcher imo if we go with just Knizner. That is far too risky. And that is also why I like Herrera getting at least another half-year at AAA.
We seem to be doing ok in the standings with poor offensive production from the 2 this year.
Save some of the Contreras money you guys think were spending on the damn bullpen! That’s where we can use the upgrade.
Salvy Perez can’t take a BB if his life depended. If we want to pay 20mil for a good leader who seems to get timely hits despite about a .250 obp% then try to talk Molina into returning one more year. Don’t invest that money in Perez’s overworked knees.
Ivan Herrera hás a .900 OPS over his last 28 days. But good is relative as that only makes him the 4th best hitting Cardinal catcher in the upper minors over this period. Well 3rd depending whether you considera Clint Coulter and his 1.005 OPS a catcher (he plays more OF than catcher) After Coulter comes Pages at .948, then Rodriguez at .921. 4th place is Herrera at .900. I’m telling you that you should not overlook Pages. He hit a decent. 754 OPS at AA before his promotion tô Memphis. After a terrible first month his OPS the last 2 months is approaching .750 including the .948 over the last 4 weeks He is the best defensively of the bunch. If he excells in the AFL the Cards may be forced tô protect him from the rule 5 draft.
Pages’ OPS was .803 in August and is .720 this month. His OPS over the last 30 days is .842. Definitely an improvement.
Knizner is the likely starter next year, with Herrera or Rodriguez being the backup. Maybe Allen could be the back up, but he looks to be a AAAA player. I think I’d have Knizner starting, while giving Herrera or Rodriguez some starts in St Louis, and rotate between Memphis and St Lou, hopefully splitting playing time. 2 catchersincluding Pages, would split time at Memphis. This is assuming Rodriguez is added to the 40 man roster, otherwise the situation is simpler. Not even sure Allen would be retained next year, as he might be a free agent.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.