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858booyah
We seem to be doing ok in the standings with poor offensive production from the 2 this year.
Save some of the Contreras money you guys think were spending on the damn bullpen! That’s where we can use the upgrade.
We are the second worst team in baseball at catcher offensively and 13th-best defensively, with all of that value coming from Yadier.
Christian Vasquez makes a lot of sense if a trade can’t be worked out as he would put us in the top half offensively and likely 18-20th defensively, playing with Knizner and Herrera.
I think Knizner is better than his metrics show. He’s not great, but better than average. From what I’ve seen from Herrera his bat is going to have to carry him. He is very stiff and doesn’t receive well. I don’t know what framing stats show on him and haven’t seen enough to say one way or the other on his framing and blocking.
Jonah Heim Texas Rangers
Pros
Switch hitter
Good dWAR
Good oWAR
Got some pop, 14 HR so far this year, 10 last year in 82 games.Questions
First full year, so is 102 OPS+ sustainable?Not sure what the price would be. Trade Values has him with a value of 15 for whatever that is worth.
BOS DFAed Kevin Plawecki…. 35th pick in 2012. Possibly some good value there. He just might be having a bad season because he usually hits better than .215. He could be of use if Kizner goes in a trade for a top-notch catcher.
Why would Texas be inclined to trade a controllable catcher, who’s 27, having a nice season, and who’s graded out as one of the better defensive catchers?
The title of this thread seems odd. I’ve resigned myself to the sort of mindset that comes to terms with the reality that there won’t be a “replacement” for Molina in my lifetime. I sure did enjoy seeing him entrenched behind HP in a Cardinal uniform for all these years and he’ll certainly be missed, but one day some guy will come along and continue the tradition of great Cardinal players. We sure were lucky to have Yadier Molina as one of them.
Not saying the Rangers would necessarily trade Heim, but they have a top 100 catching prospect who debuted in the majors this year.
I respectfully ask that you guys and gals check out Moreno, the AAA catcher for Toronto. He is blocked by the Toronto catcher, but is putting up excellent offensive numbers. AT the AAA level, I think we could make a reasonable deal and have the oopportunity to check Moreno out for a bit, to compete with Knisner and Herrera for the MLB spot.
Finally some actual sense here on a catcher. We have no legit ML catcher for next year. Murphy is a great avenue to go all in on. Having said that MO will do nothing most likely.
I think Knizner will be better than average with regular playing time. He had decent OPS numbers in the minors, and is a solid defensive catcher.
A little maturity and playing time, and he will likely be as good as anyone we could acquire without giving up a lot.
Austin Allen –
2017 – A+ – .283/.353/.497/.849
2018 – AA – .290/.351/.506/.857
2019 AAA – .330/.379/.663/1.042
2021 AAA – .317/.351/.584/.935
2022 AAA – .278/.360/.477.837Has been called up to the majors by the Padres then the As for short spells each year over the past 4 years. Bats from the left side.
Allen has no minor league options remaining. limiting the flexibility of any team that signs him. I believe the Cardinals should aim higher.
Where Allen is from should have no bearing if he is on the team or not. I guess it would be a feel good story but as Tim McCarver would say, “this is the big leagues”. And it is a business.
Again, Allen will become a minor league free agent after the season. He hasn’t been added to the 40-man yet and almost certainly won’t unless Molina and Knizner are both injured. (Because Herrera would be called up with the first catching injury.)
This winter, if the Cards add any catchers to the 40-man, they will look at prospects Julio Rodriguez and Pedro Pages first.
That doesn’t mean that Allen couldn’t be offered and accept a minor league offer with a spring training invite for 2023. The Cards like having a veteran catcher at Triple-A. Or Allen could try his luck elsewhere.
We already had this exact same discussion recently on another thread. Nothing has changed since.
And I’ll say it again, since this thread is about catchers. It would be nice if local product Allen is given a shot. That simply means an invitation to Cardinal ST in 2023. And gscottar – it does make a difference at times. There were a number of articles written about how great it was for local product David Freese to excel here. And other articles written about how meaningful it would have been for Max Scherzer to spend some time in a Cardinal uniform. And still other articles about how Bader is looking forward to playing for the Yankees.
I think the fact that we may have Knizner, Herrera, Rodriguez, and Pages on the 40-man excludes us from catcher shopping unless it’s for a really good upgrade. All 4 of these could be average or some better than average big league catchers. I’m ok with taking our chances on what we have already- guys that were already trained up in the Cardinal Way at the most important position to be trained in – rather than go to the outside and get someone back who is likely to be average. I’m excited about all 3 of those guys in the minors. Herrera has the bat. Rodriguez is great with mentoring pitchers. And Pages is probably the most Yadi like in that he is a field general who also seems to have a knack for coming through with the bat in big moments. Knizner might be the most expendable of the 4 except that he’s got real MLB experience under his belt and is probably at least somewhat close to league average himself.
I wouldn’t worry too much about catcher. I think we’re actually in pretty good shape.
And I’ll say it again, since this thread is about catchers. It would be nice if local product Allen is given a shot. That simply means an invitation to Cardinal ST in 2023. And gscottar – it does make a difference at times. There were a number of articles written about how great it was for local product David Freese to excel here. And other articles written about how meaningful it would have been for Max Scherzer to spend some time in a Cardinal uniform. And still other articles about how Bader is looking forward to playing for the Yankees.
I would imagine the Cardinals traded Jim Edmonds to the Padres for David Freese because they thought Freese would have a chance to help the big league club, which he obviously did, but not because he was from St. Louis. The fact that he became a world series hero in his hometown is a great story but not why he was here in the first place.
Same with Scherzer. If he had ever played with the Cardinals it would have been because he is one of the best pitchers of this generation, not because he was from the St. Louis area.
Having homegrown players are nice stories and an added bonus but I don’t think front offices make decisions that way, nor should they. If Allen is good enough to be a Cardinal then he will be a Cardinal but he will have to earn it like everyone else.
I still think that unless he completely tanks during ST in ’23, Knizner will be situated behind HP for next years’ regular season opener. He’s appeared in 174 games and collected 513 PA’s since he made his Big League debut in ’19, so after filling his primary role as Molina’s back-up since that time, I’m more than reasonably certain that the Cardinals have no intention of denying him a chance to fill the role as the primary C. Whether or not he retains that role for a substantial period of time is anyone’s guess.
I’ve never suggested that home town players should be given preference. All I hoped for was a ST 2023 invite for Allen. But I will say this. St. Louis fans get a big kick out of local guys who make good. And if anyone thinks Freese didn’t get a huge thrill out of helping his home town Cardinals win the WS I would take exception. St. Louis is a big little city. Very provincial and very loyal to it’s own.
I am sure Freese got a huge thrill out of it. Any hometown player would. He probably hasn’t had to buy a meal in St. Louis in the last 11 years. He earned his playing time.
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