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Noticing how Pallante was victimized again, I had a great idea. We need to infiltrate the Pirates and find out how come Skenes never gives up a seeing eye grounder all year. How come a flair never falls in? How does he go out there again and again and his infielders never bobble anything? How do his infielders never mess up a DP? How do his outfielders never get a bad jump or take a wrong route, or mistime a jump or throw to the wrong base? How come the ump always gives him everything? If everything went right all the time, and our guys never had to pitch around adversity like Skenes and the good pitchers never have to, then Andre and the rest of our rotation would be good too.
“And the guy we got for Carlson gives up more runs. Why oh why did we choose to trade him no matter what for anything? So stupid.”
It seemed management was more interested in Carlson’s future than the club. Mo said after the deal, “It wasn’t working here.” So they basically gave him away thinking maybe he can find success elsewhere.
That is a noble gesture, but astute management is to make decisions that benefit the club. If you can help a guy out in the process great, but the ball club is not in the charity business.
But the point that seems overlooked is that Carlson was availible for a good while and Mo surely took the best anyone offered. It is not like Mo could have gotten more. Carlson couldn’t play his way off the bench here. He seems to have had a psych boost getting a new chance, but he is still a platoon player with durability and performance issues.
Noticing how Pallante was victimized again, I had a great idea. We need to infiltrate the Pirates and find out how come Skenes never gives up a seeing eye grounder all year.
Bling’s comment is sarcastic, but I do think it is interesting to compare the two to show the importance of stuff. Pallante honestly hasn’t had that bad of luck as their BABIPs aren’t drastically different. Pallante allows many more batted balls though and even at a similar BABIP, he would be allowing many more hits due to volume. Notice the very large Hits / 9 rates and WHIP despite only a 13 point diff in BABIP.
Skenes – 2.25 ERA, .284 BABIP, 32.3 K%, 5.6 BB%, 0.96 WHIP, 6.7 Hits / 9
Pallante – 4.21 ERA, .297 BABIP, 17.7 K%, 9.4 BB%, 1.36 WHIP, 8.7 Hits / 9And JNevel is correct. Hitters can wait out Pallante as he throws a lot of balls. Some of which are some so uncompetitive even the most free swinging players of all time wouldn’t consider swinging. I’ve never seen a pitcher spike more pitches 6+ feet in front of home plate than Pallante.
Skenes strikeout % is nearly double that of Pallante. That accounts for the larger number of batted balls.
Yeah that was my point if I didn’t make it clear. Pallante simply allows more balls in play since he is striking hitters out less and that means more random hits fall in even if the BABIP isn’t that bad.
I am sure there was not much anyone would give for Carlson, but that does not mean you trade him. You look a what you can get, in this case an aging reliever, and what you have, in this case an athletic young player, and decide what is best. I would have passed on the trade and held on to Carlson, sending him to Memphis to see what he could do down there. Then as it turned out Siani got hurt so he would have been right back up.
As for Pallante, he is serviceable but not real good. Most anyone will look bad compared to Skenes, but Pallante is more of a stop gap starter, and ideally a middle innings reliever you use in games where a starter is knocked out early.
I think it is easy to get lost in the metrics and convince yourself that you are seeing something isn’t really there, like a mirage in the desert.
I like to look at how many quality starts a guy gets. But looking at what goes into that, I like to look at WHIP, as it is a measure of how much traffic does the guy allow, and I look at how deep into a game does 100 pitches get him, as it is a gage of efficiency. Traffic and efficiency are what goes into quality starts, and quality starts is what determines the effectiveness, not just of that starter on that occasion, but of the staff as a whole over time. If you are looking much beyond that, you are more crafting a narrative than anything else. You can talk about velo, spin, movement, ie stuff, or you can talk about the spray chart stuff, command and control, but if all that does not result in less traffic and greater efficiency, then it doesn’t matter, its just numbers which you can spew to your heart’s content without actual relevance.
My complaint about Pallante has always been that he allows too much traffic and is not efficient enough to o reliably go deep. And if you look at game logs, he is not improving in those areas as his career progresses. That is not to say he can’t have a good outing, he can, same as Liberatore can, but it is an outlier.
The Cardinals are what their record says they are.
The players are what their stats say they are.
Hand waving, and explaining away this, that, or the other is just word salad wishing.
All this poor play by a poor roster and another year of a STALE INEPT FO. What could possibly go wrong?
The Reds did the Cards a favor today. Cincinnati downs the Brewers 4-3 at Miller Park in Milwaukee.
I guess they did the Redbirds a favor. Not sure it really matters at this point. It will take one of those incredible winning streaks to get back into the division race. Or the wild card race for that matter. We are just about to the point where we are simply playing out the season.
Cubs are idle this Sunday as well. And the Doyers have an early 4-0 lead on the Pirates at Doyer Stadium.
r/Esteemed Rat
At the point it was, trading carlson had to be done. For him as well as the clubhouse. Who we gotbfor him doesnt matter, we were never going to get a quality guy in a straight up one for one deal. Just cause we got him, doesnt mean he has to play. You want to blame someone, blame the manager playing him or the people who made the decision to put him on the roster or the player himself. Saying they shouldnt trade a player they have no plans on playing is absurd especially when that will fester into a clubhouse issue.
Walker is a critical cog in getting this miscast bunch straightened out for 2025.
Walker has a .747 OPS down in Memphis. I generally count on a guy losing at least .150 pts in OPS when making the jump to MLB, which would put him in the .600 range, at best.
I don’t think you can count on Walker for next year.
Saying they shouldnt trade a player they have no plans on playing is absurd especially when that will fester into a clubhouse issue.
I have seen nothing to indicate Carlson was a bad clubhouse presence.
No, you don’t need to trade him for a guy with a 5+ ERA on an expiring contract when you can option him to Memphis.
Cardinals keep making bad trades of outfielders for relievers, which is why they are consistently mediocre.
Carlson has 1,600+ PAs in MLB and 3,400+ all together as a pro. A couple hundred more in AAA is not going to magically transform him. At some point reality has to be admitted. He was never going to do us any good and he wasn’t worth anything in trade. The End.
Just read the write up on our game 60 years ago today on OnlyCardsFans. We lost to the Giants 6-3, and were now 8 1/2 games out with four teams ahead of us.
Looks like we are not only a lackluster club this year, we were 60 years ago as well. Man, being a Cardinal fan is not a lot of fun. Why didn’t the fates have me be a Yankee fan? At least they did not make me a Cub fanatic!!
Agree with LACard on the Carlson clubhouse thing. We don’t know what goes on in the clubhouse and whether or not that had anything to do with his trade. I think it was mostly a matter of numbers – Siani had secured the center field spot and we were getting Tommy Pham. The club felt Dylan was given his chances here and it did not work out, so give him a shot in Tampa and get a bullpen piece that might ease the workload.
I would not have done it, but we do quite a lot of deals I would not do. I do like the deal for Fedde and Pham though, as who knows when or if Edman will play this year. So 1 out of 2 on the deadline deals got my approval.
No, Carlson wasn’t going to transform to live up to his prospect hype, but he had at least been playable earlier in his career.
The person they traded Carlson for is largely unplayable.
One of the things that hurt the Cardinals earlier this year was outfield depth. If they want to avoid a repeat next year, they will have to shop for some free agent outfielders in the offseason.
A guy not getting playinh time and management,manager, and even some teammates acting like one of his replacements is the person taking them to the promised land and it isnt going to lead to a bad clubhouse situation. A person cant tell me any better that they have never bern part of a team. It was clearly time for him to go. Based on their opinions, they would have been justified just releasing him. At least they got something for him, opinion of that player matters not.
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