StL 2019 Game 21 thread: Sun 4/21 vs. Mets

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum StL 2019 Game 21 thread: Sun 4/21 vs. Mets

This topic contains 59 replies, has 15 voices, and was last updated by Avatar gscottar 3 weeks, 5 days ago.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 60 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #87895
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    1:15 p.m. RHP Dakota Hudson (0-1, 6.08) vs. RHP Noah Syndergaard (1-1, 5.63) FOX Sports Midwest // KMOX // WJIR

    #88191
    Avatar
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    Happy Easter Sunday to everybody!

    r/Rat

    p.s. you too Pugs..:)

    #88205
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Yes, Happy Easter to all!

    #88221
    Avatar
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Happy Easter to the esteemed RatsBuddy, baseball maestro (not to be confused with anything associated with the Astros), Brian, Cards guru, Cranny, and everybody else here at The Cardinal Nation. Big big day for Hudson!

    #88225
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Hudson needs to step it up and pitch a strong game, or he may be in danger of losing his rotation spot. However, in his and everyone else’s defense, it would be nice to play a sub-.500 team some day. What have we had, two games against the Reds, who really are not that bad, and everyone else a .500+ ball club.

    Even tomorrow we have those pesky big bad Brewers yet again. Maybe at home we can actually win a couple. But let’s take care of this New York club first and get this series.

    Really like what I am seeing of DeJong. He is taking the next step in his career and looks real good. He and Wong give us solid defense at second base, which is a must for a winning ball club. Get Bader back in center and we are really good, although he is going to need to hit better to hold the job. I think he will though, with regular playing time.

    #88237
    Avatar
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Hey Cards – we all know it’s Easter but do not lay any eggs today. Thanks TCN.

    #88243
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #88247
    Avatar
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    You have to be somewhat optimistic about Fowler batting .271. But that can be clouded by 1 RBI and a SLG of .339, especially for his spot in the order. His OBS has improved so there’s that.

    I’m glad to see Jose Martinez in the order. I think he adds to the opposing pitcher’s fear when he steps up to the plate. Undoubtedly a perfect DH, but I continue to be able to put up with his D and have him in our order. Is he improving on his defense with the time he is getting in the outfield?

    #88262
    Avatar
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    I too am glad to see Martinez in the order these days. I think it’s highly likely he will drive in many more runs with the stick than he will allow with the occasional defensive miscue.

    #88264
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Based on a new thread with complaints about them, it is clear that a number of posters here do not embrace “new age” stats. However, WAR is one which attempts to measure total contribution (offense and defense). Last season, Martinez was the eighth-best position player on the Cards based on bWAR (from Baseball Reference).

    O’Neill was ranked ninth. Despite O’Neill playing in just 61 games to Martinez’ 152, the difference between them was just 1.4 to 1.5 bWAR. Now, Goldschmidt has joined the same top nine from last year, as well, all of whom are back for 2019.

    My point remains that players like O’Neill have considerably more upside. With no DH, Martinez is not the best choice to play every day. When the team is at full strength, he won’t and he shouldn’t start. Even with both Bader and O’Neill on the IL, I would still rather see Thomas play in CF instead of Martinez in RF. That way, they get the benefit of a better defensive player in two positions, while moving Fowler back to RF.

    P.S. It isn’t about charged errors. It is about getting to balls, handling them cleanly and then throwing them to the right place in a timely manner. The OF of Ozuna-Fowler-Martinez is downright scary.

    #88275
    Avatar
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Brian, I guess we all have our opinions but at this time even with Bader and ONeil off the IL I would prefer to see Martinez play more than just off the bench. You can have your WAR but as I am crowding 80 years of age I am not one who takes to the “new age” stats. Afterall it is the same game but now the younger crowd has found new ways to detract from the enjoyment of just watching it for entertainment. That may be a bit too harsh but the computer age (in my view) is leading to a change in how the game is viewed by younger fans. As far as I am concerned I could be very happy with NO stats shown on the screen because what they seem to do is condition the viewers thinking of what will happen. BTW. I am one who will take JMarts singles, doubles and occasional home runs to ONeil’s strikeouts. Jose has always been an outfielder in the minors. His time at 1B last season was an attempt to get him a new position to allow him to play more but Mr Carpenter the Superstar (who is just as bad defensively) has dibs on starting. Anyway, I enjoy the game as it was when I played it and the game itself is pretty much the same. It is the geeks and sabremetrics that is changing how it is viewed. That is not an insult to anybody – we all have different takes on the game but WAR is something to laugh at for me. Happy Easter to all.

    #88278
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Well, I can tell you that the teams themselves are using these stats to assist in their own decision making. Personally, I try to at least understand new measures rather than ignore or discredit them, but to each his own.

    #88283
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    There is another stat that comes into play and it is called salary. Most objective observers would admit that is the reason Fowler and his 1 RBI gets so many starts. JMart is a much better hitter than Fowler and not much worse defender.

    #88284
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Rarely does a day go by without a reminder of Fowler’s contract. You can now check off that box for today.

    But back to the subject of objective measures, here are the current bWAR values for Cardinals outfielders to date this season. Only one has a negative value, so yes, let’s play him over Fowler because Fowler has a bad contract and had a bad 2018 and because he isn’t getting enough RBI and not enough extra base hits and …

    Ozuna 0.6
    Bader 0.6
    Fowler 0.4
    Thomas 0.1
    O’Neill 0.0
    Martinez -0.2

    #88285
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    How can salary not be a legitimate issue?

    Player A: .271 avg, 0 HR, 1 RBI, .716 OPS
    Player B: .333 avg, 1 HR, 9 RBI, .792 OPS

    Player A starts almost everyday. Player B has only been receiving starts due to an injury by someone else. Why is that? Is Player A that much better of a defender than Player B? Some better, but not that much better in my opinion.

    Then why does Player A get more starts? I am thinking it is because Player A makes $16.5M per year and Player B makes $1.125 M this year, thus the organization is wanting to justify their expense. That is the only logical conclusion I can come to. I am sorry if you find that conclusion offensive but that is the way I see it.

    #88286
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    We discussed Fowler’s salary all winter long, as well as how long of a leash he would be given this season if he did not perform well. There is a 26-page thread about that very subject.

    Now that the season is actually going, Fowler is playing better than most expected. His performance to date this season would not seem to warrant his benching. Yet, by the comments of some, it feels like they prefer he fails.

    As has been stated many times, there is more to playing decisions than basic baseball-card offensive stats. I tried to use WAR as a non-subjective example, but I don’t know how else to put it.

    #88287
    Avatar
    Ratsbuddy
    Participant

    Free

    Yet, by the comments of some, it feels like they prefer he fails

    Agreed.

    I personally hope Fowler hits .355 this year with 25 homeruns, 110 rbi’s, 44 stolen bases, and wins a gold glove.

    I think I speak for Pugs as well here.

    r/Rat

    #88288
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am trying to look at this objectively. Yes, Fowler is playing better so far in 2019 than he did in 2018 but that wasn’t a very high bar. The question is does he deserve to start over other options? Trying to pretend that salary is not a factor strikes me as either incredibly naive or determined to defend the FO no matter what.

    I am not trying to be argumentative but I have yet to be convinced that salary is not a factor.

    #88289
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I think April 21 is too soon to decide Fowler’s future. Whether you like it or not, the team proclaimed him as the starter and he hasn’t lost his job, in my assessment, nor has anyone else played well enough to take it away.

    Over the winter, those who would give Fowler a chance at all seemed to think a couple of months was about right to assess. It is easy to be caught in the moment of short-period stats, whether positive or negative. Not long ago, there was a vocal group calling for Ozuna to be benched, too. Patience.

    #88292
    stlcard25
    stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    Alonso crushed a 115 mph rocket off Hudson to get the scoring started.

    I don’t know if the Cards messed with Hudson’s approach or what, but he looks like anything but an MLB starter right now. He might need a Reyes stint in Memphis to get right and come back with his sinker working.

    #88293
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Hudson should have been sent to Memphis several days ago. He obviously has zero confidence right now. I don’t know why we keep running him out there.

    #88294
    bicyclemike
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    Shildt does not use the bunt as much as I would. Right there with first and second, no out, I would have had Dex try laying one down and use the element of surprise.

    Granted a successful bunt might result in a walk to Wong, but you keep the defense honest and get the runners moving.

    Wong comes through! Good they didn’t use my strategy! 🙂

    #88295
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    The bottom of the lineup came through in the home second. Martinez drew his first walk of the year and Molina singled. No. 7 hitter Fowler K’d before Wong’s RBI single scored Martinez. Hudson reached on an error on the SS to load the bases with just one out. Carpenter flied out to short center and Molina wisely did not tag up off third. Goldschmidt drove in a pair with a screamer past the shortstop.

    Cards 3-1 after two innings.

    #88296
    EuroWolf
    EuroWolf
    Participant

    Free

    He’s given up just one run thus far, but watching Hudson pitch is painful. I’m afraid the dam is about to leak big time.

    #88300
    Avatar
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    there seems to be nothing Martinez can do for some people out here. that’s why I don’t care about new age stats. if you have a good knowledge of the game and maybe played a bit, your eyes tell you plenty. Martinez just hits the ball. yea his defense isn’t great sure but outside of bader, I don’t think any of our outfielders are that good defensively, enough to separate em. I don’t know much about this Thomas guy but I know he wasn’t hitting that well in the minors. with the fact that our starters tend to give up quite a few runs, ill take the guy that has shown he can hit off almost any pitcher and he can hit to all fields which in the age of shifts is a big thing. now if our pitching staff was loaded with guys putting no hit stuff out there, im all in on defense or late in the game with defensive substitutions. but to me Martinez should start until our pitchers start pitching better. the hard decision is gonna be when bader comes back. excellent center fielder but hasn’t really killed it offensively, plus fowler has hit well. if it was me bader would start and Martinez and fowler would alternate but I don’t think they want to hurt fowlers feelings.

Viewing 25 posts - 1 through 25 (of 60 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years