StL 2019 Game 119 thread: Wed 8/14 at Royals

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  • #101663
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    7:15 p.m. RHP Dakota Hudson (10-6, 4.01) vs. RHP Brad Keller (7-12, 4.09) FOX Sports Midwest // KMOX

    #102016
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    I have to say that Dakota does not inspire me with confidence despite what looks like a very good record. Consider his outings with Flahertys and then compare the records and you see what I mean. Dakota seems to be pretty wild in the first couple of innings of every game he starts but the defense bails him out with timely double plays and great catches. This time Dakota try to do it all on your own. Ponce was almost a twin in the pitching department but fell on his sword earlier. Now Wacha gets another shot of sticking as a SP in Cincy.

    Speaking of Cincy, that 4 game series may be a bit more than interesting and important since they acquired Aquino the Great. In that band box his pop flies should equal home runs.

    #102033
    Avatargscottar
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    Flaherty has been dominant his last several outings but unfortunately the rest of our rotation has been much less than dominant, especially on the road. That lack of reliability in the rotation may end up being what costs us the division and should have been addressed by July 31, but yes I know (water meet bridge). All we can do is hope that Hudson, Mikolas, Wainwright and Wacha (gulp) can step it up.

    #102035
    Avatargscottar
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    #102043
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    gsc… Schafer is spot on. There have been clues on these threads concerning the pipeline drying up. If you follow the farm system it is apparent nearly everyday. What we have behind Flaherty-Mikolas-Hudson is a mish-mosh of some potential but mostly poor performances. I don’t like to go to the “what if” thingy… but we seem to have lost some starters that would be helpful now.

    Some fans have been saying “trade our prospect pitchers for what the big club needs. Well, Mo in his infinite wisdom was listening and bundled a bunch of fine starting prospects and we wound up with some mish-mosh in St Louis and are left with borderline mediocrity at the top end of our affiliates.

    Its too bad that the FO put their faith in Reyes, CMart and Cabrera to be top of the rotation guys.

    The FO now has to go out and find some starting pitching and will be looking for the type of young pitchers that we traded away. But certainly you can’t fault the boys upstairs for any of this.

    #102044
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Brian has been warning of the impending pitching bubble for several years. Certainly it could become a major issue unless we can move Cmart back to the rotation, Reyes or Gomber can’t get healthy or effective, or we can’t find a free agent to sign.

    #102047
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Hey Pugs?
    Be advised that I am now in possession of my Walther PPK handgun.

    And I sure hope the Phillies do us a favor this week. The other good part is that it looks like the Pirates are starting to get things back together again. That’s good because the Cubs head to Pittsburgh this weekend.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #102048
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    We are (1) one game out of first place. Its hard to imagine but there we are. IMO there may be too much made of the trade deadline inactivity. It seems fans are angry and concentrating on that and not watching the standings.

    Somehow we will win the division. Screw that wildcard talk. I don’t like the win or go home scenario… although I’d put Flaherty up to any starter right now to get that W.

    Jack Flaherty has been the best pitcher in the NL in the 2nd half.

    https://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2019/8/14/20805406/jack-flaherty-has-been-the-best-pitcher-in-the-nl-in-the-2nd-half

    GO CARDS.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatar14NyquisT.
    #102059
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #102060
    AvatarPadsFS
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    Minuteman3

    Speaking of Cincy, that 4 game series may be a bit more than interesting and important since they acquired Aquino the Great. In that band box his pop flies should equal home runs.

    Aquino wasn’t acquired. He’s been in the Reds system his whole career. He was a big-time prospect after 2016 and won player of the year in the FSL.

    #102063
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    I guess it’s a matter of semantics, but what does “acquired” mean? Aquino had a few days when he wasn’t in the Reds system in late 2018. He was non-tendered and became a free agent for a few days. Then he signed with the Reds again, but to a minor league deal.

    #102064
    Avatargscottar
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    Some fans have been saying “trade our prospect pitchers for what the big club needs. Well, Mo in his infinite wisdom was listening and bundled a bunch of fine starting prospects and we wound up with some mish-mosh in St Louis and are left with borderline mediocrity at the top end of our affiliates.

    What I have been saying is trade one or two or three of our 27 OF options for what the big club needs, which is starting pitching. We don’t need to be trading away any more pitching. The crazy thing about the Pham and Mercado trades last year is that we actually acquired more OF’s, which is the last thing we need.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatargscottar.
    #102070
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    14NyquisT wrote:

    “Some fans have been saying “trade our prospect pitchers for what the big club needs. Well, Mo in his infinite wisdom was listening and bundled a bunch of fine starting prospects and we wound up with some mish-mosh in St Louis and are left with borderline mediocrity at the top end of our affiliates.”

    Fact checking again…

    Over the last two years, in return for these “fine starting pitching prospects” (and multiple other players):

    Luke Weaver (graciously included as he was no longer a prospect)
    Sandy Alcantara
    Zac Gallen (since traded again)

    … the Cardinals received this “mish-mosh”:

    Paul Goldschmidt
    Marcell Ozuna

    These mish-moshers are the nos. 1 and 2 RBI producers on the 2019 Cardinals.

    Conclusion: You have to trade quality to get quality in return.

    #102071
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    Brewers got 3 in the bottom of the 8th to beat the Twin Cities 6-5.

    #102072
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    These are the other “fine starting pitching prospects” traded away in recent years:

    Shelby Miller (again no longer a prospect when traded) – washout
    Marco Gonzales – for Tyler O’Neill – open question
    Rob Kaminsky – washout
    Sam Gaviglio – journeyman, fringe MLBer
    Tyrell Jenkins – washout
    Clayton Mortensen – journeyman, fringe MLBer

    I’ve gone all the way back to before Mo became GM and I am just not seeing what is being asserted on this thread.

    #102073
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    The crazy thing about the Pham and Mercado trades last year is that we actually acquired more OF’s, which is the last thing we need.

    Sometimes you might have to deal in quantity to get real quality. For example, of O’Neill, Williams, Garcia, Arozarena, Bader and Thomas, how many major league starting quality players are there? Suppose it’s only two and you trade one? Then you end up shorting yourself when you could have just waited a bit longer.

    I’m not saying OF is definitely that case but it very well could be. We have went through a lot of OF in the last 3-4 years and haven’t really gotten a great outfield out of it yet.

    #102074
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    gscottar wrote:

    “The crazy thing about the Pham and Mercado trades last year is that we actually acquired more OF’s, which is the last thing we need.”

    You seem to forget that at the time, there was considerable concern that both the MLB lineup and the minor league system were very right-handed heavy. In those two trades, the Cards dealt away two RHH outfielders and picked up two LHH outfielders (Williams and Capel), a LHP pitcher (Cabrera) plus others.

    I am not defending or condemning the trades. Just reminding us of the explanation at the time. Even if you did not feel they needed these players, the Cards had what appeared to be a logical reason for wanting them.

    #102075
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    stlcard25 wrote:

    …For example, of O’Neill, Williams, Garcia, Arozarena, Bader and Thomas, how many major league starting quality players are there?…

    I wonder about that, too. I sometimes think this may be the strongest future fourth OF collection in MLB, but time is needed to sort them out. If you go by scouting reports and rankings, O’Neill may have the best shot of the group, but he cannot stay healthy long enough when he finally gets a chance. Carlson (not included in this group) would appear to be the next big outfield hope.

    #102076
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
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    Hey Pugs? Be advised that I am now in possession of my Walther PPK handgun.

    I’ll never say another bad word about you ever again….sir. Always remember Rat……. we two go way back….wayyyy back to the horse & buggy days at The Birdhouse, now known as The Cardinal Nation.

    I called it 9-4 Cards last night, and I’m usually real close, so in the belief that I was just a game off, I’ll stick with that very score tonight. Edman should find the upper reaches of the Kaufman field rafters this evening.

    RAT ROCKS!!

    #102078
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    Re: the Mercado trade, it was more than just handedness I think. I think Mo also talked about the timing of the prospect harvest. He was exchanging some depth at the top for more depth at the lower rungs, which he viewed as a way to give more balance to organization down the road while helping with the existing logjam. We’ll see.

    #102080
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    I like that, Pugs. It’s not what you predict, it’s when you predict it. That’s like the scheduling adage of it’s not who you play, it’s when you play them. Rat is all over that one noticing the cubs might be catching the Bucs at the wrong time later this week. Back to your 9-run prediction for tonight: having DeJong, Carp and Yadi batting back-to-back-to-back does give me pause for concern. But faith in you as always.

    #102081
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    EW wrote:
    <I guess it’s a matter of semantics, but what does “acquired” mean?>

    OMG, busted by the word police. I don’t do indepth research on opposing team players but that guy has got a lot of press lately. I guess ‘promoted’ would have been a better choice of words. Doesn’t matter. Still gotta watch his bat. Capiche?

    #102082
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Somebody earlier on this thread or another one said that Dylan Carlson was part of the John Lackey trade. Since Carlson is 20 years old, he must have still been in the cradle when that happened. Where am I going wrong on this line of thinking?

    #102086
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    OMG, busted by the word police.

    My goodness, I was the one defending your word choice, but I guess it flew right over your noggin. LOL.

    #102087
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    On a good note, the Cubs trail the Phillies tonight 4-0. Its still early though, and anything can happen in that bandbox.

    And speaking of din-din, I just purchased a shake mixer off of Amazon. Now all I need are some good recipes for chocolate shakes..:)

    r/Esteemed Rat

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