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Seriously, they can’t go into 2026 with a payroll south of at least $125M right? After Arenado, Donnie and JoJo are gone, that puts them at roughly $77M.
I don’t want to be done watching them by Cinco De Mayo….
The record next year might not be very good but I’m actually looking forward to watching our prospects lumber down the runway seeing if they will crash or soar. I’m probably in the minority tho.
Actually, I’m looking forward to
any big league ready players they get in trades. They very well could be a playoff team in 2026, if some of those players kick in and play well.I’m looking forward to the Cardinals shocking everyone by:
1) Trading Nolan Arenado + Lars Nootbaar + Nathan Church to the Angels for Jorge Soler + Chris Cortez + Nate Snead + Hayden Alvarez
2) Trading Jorge Soler + 13 million for a bucket of balls and saving $3 million
3) Trading Willson Contreras + Brendan Donovan to the Red Sox for Wilyer Abreu + Marcus Phillips + Anthony Eyanson
4) Burleson + Herrera only playing 1B/DH
5) Jordan Walker spending all of 2026 at Memphis
6) Signing Rob Refsnyder as a RH LF and Harrison Bader as a RH CF
7) Signing Merrill Kelly as SP1 and Zack Littell as SP2
8) Having Pallante, Fitts or Matthews wildly exceed expectations as SP5
9) Winning the division in 2026
10) DeWitt collecting his $70 million in welfare so he can end the “reset”
–Participant
The Cardinals only win this trade if Fitts or Clarke turn out to be better than Gray. I would tend to believe that site for established MLB players a lot more than I would for prospects, who are valued weirdly.They don’t win the trade if one ends up a back end starter and the other a 8th or 9th inning option?
One is already getting a chance to start and the other is highly thought of, has a rocket arm but is a tad wild in high A ball. I think we win because we potentially got younger cost controlled pitching. Which is what Chaim and ownership wanted. Young and cheap while they get the house in order and try and get some fans back at some point.
“Seriously, they can’t go into 2026 with a payroll south of at least $125M right? After Arenado, Donnie and JoJo are gone, that puts them at roughly $77M.”
Why would the club trade Donovan or Romero? I mean, unless the goal is to be as terrible as possible in the short term — and that makes ZERO sense as a long term strategy, because tanking (like the Astros & cubs did 12-14 years ago) does NOT yield remotely similar benefits now, due to changes over the past decade in the Collective Bargaining Agreement.
Back when the ‘Stros and cubs tanked, they gained enormous budgetary advantages in both the amateur domestic draft, and international player market. Those advantages have since been flattened out to a great degree. So tanking is essentially obsolete as a viable mechanism for any team trying to actually win baseball games, over any timeframe.
If anything the Cards should try to sign Brendan tomorrow to a reasonable 3-5 year contract with a club option or two at the end. He’s got two years before free agency and made less than $3MM in 2025! So there’s no way he or his agent would turn down $15MM per year for 3-5 seasons. And Romero, who also made a relative pittance in 2025 at just over 2 million bucks, has been very healthy and effective since joining the Cards in 2022. So sign him for 2-3 years, guaranteed.
Inking a nifty complimentary player who has had trouble staying healthy and a 60 inning pen arm won’t get us to the promised land Bob. I think Bloom understands that. He was hired to produce top end starters and MOTO bats in house. I think he would be very interested in acquiring top shelf prospects that his new PD system could potentially turn into that. He won’t get that dangling aging money pits and spare parts. His best stuff has to be on the table.
The timing of the situation must be taken into account. The Cardinals had the peak years of Goldy and Arenado and accomplished almost nothing because the rest of roster was too weak. The peak years of Donovan are poised to be the same. Kicking the can down the road a few years could help the later outcome.
Improving via the draft is slow. The only way to speed things up is to make short term sacrifices. This is the direction Bloom has charted. Some haven’t accepted that yet.
This recent headline from the Post-Dispatch captures it:
Fallout from Sonny Gray trade: Can Cardinals’ long-term vision coexist with fan urgency?
The difference between Helsley and JoJo’s arb salaries is in large part due to Helsleys saves, and JoJo’s lack of.
Someone different will need the closer role occasionally the next few seasons. We could spread those saves out among Svanson, O’Brien, etc. for the next few years and drive their future arb salaries up substantually, when we hope to have a good roster; or extend JoJo affordably as Bob suggested, and pile the saves on his guaranteed contract.
I agree with a lot of what Bob said because I have never viewed this as an either/or situation. I think a smart front office can rebuild through attrition and short term deals while heavily investing in the farm at the same time. Then when the underwater contracts are off the books you get more aggressive.
We can trade from surplus instead of tearing it all the way down. Bloom views a complete tank job as the quickest way to get to the top but it is also the quickest way to the bottom.
You have a link for “full tank job”? Quite the phrase to hang out there. Is Bloom the villain now?
We’ve been trading arb guys since before Bader, you know the list, short-timers headed out the door regularly. Gray is no different.
There are degrees for everything. Realistically, it is neither extreme – a “full tank job” nor a “do nothing” – but somewhere in the vast gulf between.
To get good players in return, good players are going to have to leave. That won’t feel good to everyone.
Some interesting notes while you get the bird and stuffing ready.
Towards the bottom of the article it appears Chaim understands the need of adding a veteran to the rotation on a short term deal. Let’s see what they do. Think it all depends on whom they send packing via trade.
You have a link for “full tank job”? Quite the phrase to hang out there. Is Bloom the villain now?
He is way too smart to ever say something like that publicly but actions speak louder than words.
All I am saying is that the Astro and Cub model of a decade ago is obsolete. If you voluntarily jump into the quicksand there is no gurarantee you will climb out.
The difference between trading Gray now, instead of at the deadline…. Risk avoided, return in hand. Full value.
I can remember one player extended in the last 5 seasons. Gray was just next.
Trading Gray makes perfect sense. He couldn’t help this team in ’24 or ’25, so I’d have to guess he wouldn’t have helped them in ’26 or beyond. His legacy as a Cardinal will be one that I’d term very unimportant. In my view, the St. Louis, Cardinals are presently a Big League baseball team that is entirely unwilling to effectively function in a manner conducive to winning baseball games. Winning, or even appearing to care about winning, is no longer a commitment. The goal at this time is obviously to focus on the net number displayed in the noteworthy area of the spreadsheet. Willie Jr. is, first and foremost, a holding company guy. He may enjoy being the owner of a baseball team and I’m reasonably certain he’s a bit of a baseball fan, but don’t kid yourself…his DNA identifies him as a staunch and devoted businessman who’s commitment to the net take will always supercede any and all other considerations. That’s simply how holding company kids like Willie Jr. are wired. He can’t help it.
I would argue winning through the draft doesn’t take long. We are already doing it. Our good fortune in recent drafts could become a bonanza Dec. 9.
Next season we could see the emegence of Tink Hence, Quinn Mathews, Jimmy Crooks, and Cooper Hjerpe as young studs.
I consider JJ to be the best hitter we have on the roster. Walker and Gorman are the keys and Donovan is considered our best player. The draft is easily the core and the near future. We don’t have to wait at all to reap the enormous benefits of recent drafts. Winn, Burly, McGreevey…Yep,it’s usually the cash and not the PTBNL. I would rather it be a player we received as compensation from Boston and not the cash……”Cash” rekindles memories of two nice little ballplayers from yesteryear in the person of “Stormin” Norman Cash and Davey Cash. I think there were no other “Cash”‘s in baseball…..though there was a Crash Davis.
If The Sox don’t like Gray maybe they will send him back as the PTBNL. He wouldn’t be the first guy traded for himself.
Re remember that we have to find a taker for Nado. Angels might be a taker but not if we don’t eat some serious money. He won’t like hitting in that park tho.
Arizona maybe in a bad contract swap. We get Montgomery back with some money kicked their way. He could hit .250 20-80 there and cement his legacy. We’d get a vet pitcher on rebound looking to reestablish himself into the 2026 season back from injury. If he does ok you give him a kicker deal and if he doesn’t then you just let him go.
Looked at our attendance the last three years abs did not realize how down we were. I knew that fans had found other things to do, but did not realize that we were 1M down this year from 2023. Wow. You figure maybe an ever age of $50 per fan in attendance with tickets, parking food etc. That is a whopping $50 million on lost revenue from two years ago, and that number might be overly conservative. No wonder Sonny is gone.
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