Ozuna shoulder irritation

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This topic contains 214 replies, has 33 voices, and was last updated by bicyclemike bicyclemike 5 months ago.

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  • #87912
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    gscottar
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    Well we have been notoriously patient at the trade deadline the last several years when it comes to making impactful upgrades. How has that worked out?

    #87913
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Well we have been notoriously patient at the trade deadline the last several years when it comes to making impactful upgrades. How has that worked out?

    Seeing as how we had a ton of dead payroll sunk into non-productive players (and still do), I for one am glad we haven’t gutted our farm system. We are getting a lot of contributions from minimum contract guys – because we have to.

    Sometimes patience works, and sometimes it doesn’t. Sometimes aggressively going after a deal works, and sometimes it doesn’t. But I’m not one of the ones in this thread claiming we only had one option – aggressively pursuing a deal. We could have done either. We chose to pursue the deal. The Brewers chose patience.

    What does that tell us? Probably nothing. But I’m not going to admonish Cardinals fans who watched us go 2-5 against the Brewers who really wish we had been more patient. And I’m not going to troll them with memes and jokes. Just like I can’t fault the people who wish we hadn’t aggressively gone after Fowler. It is a reasonable point of view.

    #87916
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    14NyquisT
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    Some good discussion on this topic. The fact remains that the FO targeted Ozuna, after the Stanton nix, knowing that he had a shoulder problem. They have been known to jump at players in panic mode. Holland being a prime example. I have no love for the boys upstairs but be careful when disputing their motives, things usually get dicey.

    #87918
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    gscottar
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    I have been very lukewarm on the front office also but for the exact opposite reason that atripleshyofthe cycle has stated. I think the FO’s passiveness (or some prefer the term meticulous practicality) has caused us more harm than some of their misguided contacts.

    Perhaps that is the problem. They are too passive most of the time but when they try to be aggressive they just make a bigger mess. Neither option sounds like a recipe for success.

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #87920
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    Minuteman3
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    I am finding it rather humorous that this whole thread is about a guy who is leading the team in several offensive categories at the moment. Paul Goldschmidt is my favorite but it must be embarrassing to see him strike out so many times in games. As for Ozuna’s defense, it could be better but he sort of reminds me of Matt Holliday in left field. As for the losses the Brewers have a good team and the Cardinals currently have rotation problems but those things can change as the season goes along. My objection is to the schedulers coming up with a schedule that makes teams face each other 10 times in a month. That begins to resemble spring training. Stretching out the 19 games that each team faces their division opponents makes it a more meaningful season for both teams in that they meet each other at varying times of each others strengths and weaknesses to include injuries and new players.
    I have no idea what goes on the the team dressing room, the manager’s office, the owner and FO offices so I cannot tell with any degree of accuracy why something was done or not. I prefer to just watch the games and enjoy them for what they are. The what ifs and whys are beyond my pay grade but, like all forums, some tend to enjoy debating those things as if they are ‘in the know’ but, more accurately, as if they could do what they wanted without any knowledge of other factors affecting decisions. My sermon is now over. A day off is a bad thing for me. It means I have to find out something else to look forward to. Hope everyone enjoys it.

    #87921
    Brian Walton
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    Minuteman, all should not be lost today. Why not look forward to Alex Reyes’ start tonight? Even if you don’t subscribe to MiLB.TV, the audio is free and Memphis broadcaster Steve Selby is excellent.

    #87922
    Brian Walton
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    I believe that patience and/or lack of it is not the issue – getting the players who perform well after they are acquired is. There is no magic formula on timing to ensure success.

    Case in point.

    14NyquisT wrote:

    “They have been known to jump at players in panic mode. Holland being a prime example.”

    Let’s step back and consider this objectively.

    Did the Cardinals activate Holland before he was ready? Absolutely.
    Did they keep using him in high leverage situations even when struggling? Absolutely.
    Did Holland turn out to be a bad sign? Absolutely.

    Was Holland a panic move? Absolutely NOT! He had been a free agent for months and remained unsigned into the regular season. His price dropped so the Cards picked him up just a couple of games into the schedule.

    The only difference between this being a brilliant Brewers-style patient acquisition and a terrible Cardinals one was what happened afterward – Holland pitched poorly. The only difference.

    #87929
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    If it is just a matter of luck in what happens later, we can probably save a lot of money on front office salaries.

    Was Mikolas just a lucky thing working out last year, or can we give some credit to the front office guys? I think they should own their wins and own their failures. If Ozuna can continue to put up huge offensive numbers, he will be a huge win. If he has another season like he did last year (him leading the team in RBIs doesn’t move the needle much for me), then it will probably be a wash (we didn’t trade away much, if any, value, but he does make enough money that there is a little opportunity cost).

    Holland was a major fail due to the wasted payroll, but even more to the loss of the draft pick.

    All front offices will have wins and losses, ours is no different. But when they come up short, it should be owned – not explained away due to bad luck.

    My bottom line (which is entirely meaningless outside of message board discussion) is that Mo and his front office need to start showing improvement on the field. This team has not trended well for 8 years. Even if you want to assign the failures to bad luck, at some point you need to try to change your luck. I’m of the opinion that it is time to clean house, but that day is on the horizon if things don’t turn around. Here’s hoping this year will be that turn-around.

    #87938
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    Minuteman3
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    I know that early season stats are not very typical of an overall season but sometime you just can’t ignore them.
    Player 1 – BA-.262…HR-4…SB-1…OBP-.423…OPS-.948

    Player 2 – BA-.290…HR-8…SB-2…OBP-.343…OPS-.1.069

    Which one is Marcel and which one is Harper. Surprising huh? A few million different in pay too.

    #87940
    bicyclemike
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    I thought coming in to the season that Marcel would be real good this year. Now he could still tank, but it won’t surprise me at all if he ends up with a much better season than last year.

    If he is still producing at about a .950 or better OPS in mid-season, you wonder if the club will try to work an extension and keep him here for a couple of years longer, or more.

    #87947
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    GACard
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    I mean either way ozuna is a win. Imagine if we wait and are outbid by the brewers for yelich too (price rag much higher). Marcel ozuna is so much better than trotting Randal grichuk out to left field every day

    Yeah it would be awesome if every move was perfectly planned and worked out better for the cards than anyone else, but ozuna can not be viewed as a bad move

    We gave up alcantara. Maybe he’s a stud but I don’t know if he’s better than the young pitchers we have now and certainly wouldnt be performing better right now. All of our pitchers stats are skewed by bad games against a lefty heavy brewers lineup (and all of these games in miller park). Is that a problem? It’s certainly not good.

    At the end of the day we’ve played 18 games and marcel ozuna is crushing the baseball and sandy alcantara would not be helping in any way

    Having ozuna is way better than not having ozuna and if we got yelich we would’ve paid a price that people would have complained about for 9 months anyway

    A lot of negativity on this board lately and we should let things play out. This is a good baseball team with a potentially great offense and a bullpen really rounding into form. Would be great to get Carlos back in good form. And if that happens, we are a trade for a left handed starter away from making a serious run at the pennant

    If anyone knew yelich would turn into babe Ruth after slapping doubles and singles at a 270 average for a couple years before it actually happened, they’re smarter than anyone (including the brewers). Sometimes things work out far better than anyone imagined

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Avatar GACard.
    #87965
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    gscottar
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    If he is still producing at about a .950 or better OPS in mid-season, you wonder if the club will try to work an extension and keep him here for a couple of years longer, or more.

    I doubt we will see an extension for Ozuna. Even though we potentially have some money coming off the books in regards to Wacha, Gyroko, Gregerson, etc…. we also have some big raises in store for Goldy, Mikolas, and Carp. If Ozuna has a big year I think the FO will be glad to offer him the QO and take the draft pick, knowing that we have cheap replacements in O’Neill and JMart.

    #87967
    Brian Walton
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    I don’t think whether or not to try to keep Ozuna beyond this season will be primarily a money issue. My view is that he walks. As gscottar notes, Ozuna continuing this good start should lock down a qualifying offer.

    #87968
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Brian, by that do you mean it will be a personnel issue?

    Edit: Sorry, I asked before you clarified.

    #88005
    bicyclemike
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    My sense is that Ozuna walks as well, as we need to play O’Neill every day and see what he can do. With the reluctance to play him in right field more, the club will have the perfect opportunity next year with the left field job up for grabs.

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