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Two thoughts mentioned by other commenters stand out.
It throws cold water on the Yadi narrative.
And the next guy would just be another boot licking minion anyway, so what difference does it make if Marmol is the guy.
At this stage I’d take any boot licking minion over the current boot licking minion. What this organization needs is a steady variety of minions to keep the fans interested.
So 71-91 and last place gets Marmol a contract extension.
I guess that means 65-97 would get him, say, 25% ownership share in the ballclub?
If he goes 59-103 this year, maybe the DeWitts will buy him the Arch.Obviously the powers that be see something in Oli that we do not. I have a tremendously strong hunch that they’re actually right on this one. Oli is ours, so let’s take the high road on this matter and applaud the extension.
https://images.app.goo.gl/1xsx9AUvQp9uogYLA
This front office has gotten weirder and weirder ever since they fired Bubbles. At this point I’m positive MO is trolling the fan base. Seriously. Bill Bidwill and Uncle Rico ( Kroenke) were weird like that too.
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https://images.app.goo.gl/SjXHXPEMAfawQTq77
For Your viewing pleasure-uncle Rico
Uncle Rico stole the show(with a tip of the cap to Pedro) in Napoleon Dynamite. Thanks for bringing him up, KeepComingBack!
The Cardinals went 93-69 with Oli as manager.
In 2023 the Cardinals bombed. Here are a few of the obvious reason:
– still transitioning out of 19 years of Yadi
– Waino was working with an injured back
– one too many years of Flaherty and Hicks
– Dakota Hudson always coming along, but never arriving
– Mikolas
– too many wannabe’s in the clubhouse
– no pitching depth
– Tyler O’Neill playing for his agent rather than his pride
– Wilson Contreras not yet in synch with the team
– Jordan Walker learning to play a new position
– Steven Matz not showing up…..again
– Dusty Blake?
– Andre Pallante trying to get outs without having a decent breaking ball
– Taylor Motter and Jose Fermin as infield depth
– too many players sent to the World Baseball Classic
– a few more issues not listedHow much of this was Oli’s fault?
Very good list mud. Although you did mention Blake, I think losing Maddox and Albert might have been one of the significant things. Losing Skip and replacing him with a different kind of resume sitting there next to Marmol all year was a factor. The me first bad apples in the clubhouse that Marmol alluded to was significant, as is whether or not all of them are now gone. Having to endure another 300 PAs of DeJong should never have happened. The org’s failure to correctly evaluate the readiness of the starting pitchers/AAA depth laundry list was pivotal. It is concerning that whatever led to than misstep may not have been corrected.
An item that didn’t really matter was Winn stumbling offensively, hitting .172. His 100+ PAs came after the season had already been lost by others. I am kind of up in the air about Wainwright. The season was over after the first couple months and I don’t think he was too terrible during that initial stretch, but I might be remembering wrong. The fact that catchergate happened does not reflect well on him though. I think it was a pitcher driven mess, and even if he was not a participant, his veteran leadership amongst the pitching staff seems to have been absent. I’m not a Contreras basher, but we don’t really know if there was something to the complaints about him, and don’t really know how well he will do working with the staff and calling games. Knizner’s presence may have been a stabilizer that is now gone.
There were a lot of moving parts contributing to the shift from 93 wins to 71, which obscures the part played by Marmol.
I think for me, now that it’s soaked in, it was just such a surprise. I probably let mob mentality dictate how I feel about Marmol to some extent. The only thing that really bothered me was the whole O’Neil fiasco. I was in Oli’s corner on the issue. Anyone could see him jaking it. But that stuff stays in the clubhouse or it becomes the huge distraction that it did. Kind of like keeping our posts about baseball, not the fact we have a new poster and his sock puppet account soiling the CN community. I agree with the extension. It let’s the whole organization focus on baseball instead of the inevitable feeding frenzy if the start off slowly.
I do think by extending him they do away with the lame duck scenario. So in that way it works. But that’s an overview. Since I didn’t like his hire from the beginning and nothing he has done has changed my perspective, I don’t like the extension. Sure they can still fire him but that just makes the organization look worse than they did before which means they might hesitate to fire him if he deserves it thus meaning more bad performance from the team. Some people need to be on a hot seat to perform their best rather than being propped up by a false crutch. To me this team is failing in all facets of management but that’s just my opinion.
Unforced error by the front office. No real need to extend him now given last season.
I concur that there were too many issues to correctly evaluate Marmol. But he did nothing to make things better (threw players under the bus to the press).
An extension now was unnecessary, simply provides cover. If the FO was confident in his leadership, why did they feel compelled to sign SO much past-prime “talent” to buttress that in the clubhouse?
Don’t get it?
As Pugs mentioned, the front office obviously likes the job Ollie has done. They must also get positive confirmations from the veteran players that the guy is doing a good job.
Like many of us outside looking in, I did not like the firing of Shildt, and the hiring of Marmol looked like it was doubling down on bad moves. And nothing he has done has changed my opinion.
The 93 wins looked like he was a good choice, but then in the post season series I thought he removed Quintana too early – the guy was doing great. And then that nightmare finish was a clinic in what not to do. It reminded me of the moves Matheny made in that series against the Giants where he played into Bochy’s hand and helped give away a potential win.
But managers only do so much. It is the player’s production, and a degree of luck that primarily dictates winning and losing. We will see how this goes.
This makes me think that the FO feels that ’23 was not an aberration and that there’s at least two more years of grief to bear. Mo figures that Marmol will take most of the fan’s anger and disenchantment that should be aimed squarely at him.
Okay, so……if the team stumbles out of the gate here in 2024 and is about 25-35 around Memorial Day can they not still let him go?
They could legally let him go but I would be shocked if Marmol was fired a couple of months after receiving an extension. There is probably a 1% chance of that happening. He would have to bow up to Mo like Shildt apparently did. Also keep in mind that the Cardinals do not like to eat money. Marmol is now under contract for the next three years which tells me he is safe for at least the next two years.
Kind of like JJ said my feathers aren’t really ruffled by this because this organization is probably never going to hire another veteran manager again in my lifetime so who is to say the next rookie manager would be any better? The Cardinals are 100% committed to their top down approach. They like having the front office totally controlling the manager and that is not going to change. We just need to hope that the front office can eventually put together a roster that Marmol and his rookie bench coach and inexperienced pitching coach can win with.
the front office totally controlling the manager
My brother thinks that, too. There are a lot of fans that think Oli is a yes man for the front office, but I don’t get it. I think the front office and the manager and coaches are working together as a team. One of LaRussa’s management techniques was, for example, to leave an ineffective relief pitcher on the mound so long as to shame the front office into getting him a better relief pitches.There is no teamwork in that kind of strategy and it reeks of ego.
I agree that they work together. The front office gives Marmol direction and he accepts it and goes with it with minimal pushback. From that perpsective we are a well oiled machine.
One thing that puzzles me is the timing. The Cardinals knew in November that Marmol was facing a lame duck season so why didn’t they do the extension then?
His current managerial record places teams he’s managed at 4 games over. His teams have yet to win a game and stand at 0-2 in post-season contests. What will his W/L record define the type of manager that he is when the ’24 season comes to a close? I feel as though his managerial record has a decent chance to look grim and unsightly by season’s end. In any event, I’m looking forward to the odd things he has to say during the post-game pressers.
I thought it was stupid to bring him back for 24. Don’t know what to call this deal.
I can’t remember a Cardinal manager I had less confidence in.
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