May 18, 2018 at 10:00 am #52939
I hope Knizner can become good behind the plate and i hope Kelly gets a real chance to play and show he can be solid for the Cards.Molina isn`t unbreakable (2 DL stints in the last 60 games).Besides Molina might have some issues coming back and catching effectively (Twitter BS aside).May 18, 2018 at 10:44 am #52950
A quick note on the Memphis game last night. 3 steals were off of Mujica/Knizner, and that makes 5 steals against Mujica in his last 10 games. Generally Mujica has pitched well, but when he has runners on, they apparently know he is easy to run on. Obviously a rough start, but I think he will be fine. I believe he will be average defensively with a plus bat.May 18, 2018 at 5:01 pm #52996
A quick note on the Memphis game last night. 3 steals were off of Mujica/Knizner, and that makes 5 steals against Mujica in his last 10 games. Generally Mujica has pitched well, but when he has runners on, they apparently know he is easy to run on. Obviously a rough start, but I think he will be fine. I believe he will be average defensively with a plus bat.
Those watching the game on Milb.tv last night would have heard the announcers commenting about how the majority of the steals (5 of the 6) were more attributed to the pitching staff. I believe they may have actually said that only one was solely the fault of Knizner. Going to go back to review the archived video of the game to clarify, though.May 18, 2018 at 7:31 pm #53022
So what was the excuse at Springfield? He wasn`t throwing runners out in Double A either.May 18, 2018 at 7:54 pm #53025
So what was the excuse at Springfield? He wasn`t throwing runners out in Double A either.
Not making excuses, just relaying factual info stated by the announcers while the game was going on last night and commenting in response to the previous comment that mentioned BOTH Mujica and Knizner. Fault was on no one person in my opinion, and apparently the announcers felt the same.May 18, 2018 at 9:11 pm #53042
Bw52, why put all your emphasis on six weeks of this year, when last year’s numbers (over a much longer period of time) at the same level, look good?May 18, 2018 at 10:02 pm #53058Euro DandyParticipantFree
As for comparing their development, I believe Kelly’s first year as catcher was 2014. Knizner was a 3B in 2014 as an NC State freshmen. He converted to catch in 2015 as a sophomore. Not sure how much impact college coaching versus professional coaching could speed or slow their development as catchers in their specific situations.May 19, 2018 at 9:33 am #53132
Brian- i like Knizner as a prospect.I just don`t think he is better than Kelly at this time.Sure he can hit but his defense is obviously not what it was compared to last season .I hope he casn right the ship and start throwing out some guys.Knizner just seems to have fallen back defensively this year so far IMHO.
Brian i also am concerned because his numbers dropped defensively as he went to a higher level this season.I understand a learning curve and growing pains but people that think Knizner is going to jump in and take AAA by storm are likely to be disappointed.In a perfect world Knizner and Kelly both do well and next season Kelly backs up Molina and gets decent amount of playing time and Knizner gets a bench role as 3rd C/backup 1B/bench bat in Stlouis .May 19, 2018 at 9:52 am #53134
Bw52, allow me to correct several misconceptions. Knizner started at the SAME level this year as last and has hit BETTER this year – and he was our Player of the Year for the entire system in 2017.
I did not suggest that Knizner is a better prospect than Kelly – yet. In fact in the rankings I published just yesterday, I reaffirmed that. However, I believe the gap is closing.
Yes, his throwing out runners is worse at the start of this year compared to all of last season, but it is at the SAME level where he did well in 2017.
I don’t know if throwing out runners can be an area in which a player can get in a slump, but if so, this could be Exhibit A.
I do agree that Triple-A will be a good test for him. Hopefully he can stay healthy when Kelly could not.May 19, 2018 at 12:53 pm #53164
Brian i also am concerned because his numbers dropped defensively as he went to a higher level this season.I understand a learning curve and growing pains but people that think Knizner is going to jump in and take AAA by storm are likely to be disappointed.In a perfect world Knizner and Kelly both do well and next season Kelly backs up Molina and gets decent amount of playing time and Knizner gets a bench role as 3rd C/backup 1B/bench bat in Stlouis .
Throwing out runners is partially dependent upon the effectiveness of the the pitching staff in keeping a check on the movement and position of base runners. Also to be considered is the speed to which the pitcher delivers the ball to the plate and the type of pitch that was called. Add to that this factor: if the throw-down occurs, one has to look at if the infielder catches the ball and puts the tag down in a timely manner. It is a team effort, and if any part of the team effort is not perfectly timed and executed, a stolen base will occur.
One can point out the issue of stolen bases, but some of us will also focus on the outstanding blocking and receiving ability Knizner has consistently exhibited this season. He received high praise from Mattheny at Spring training as well as complimentary reviews from Wainwright last week. Making a statement that people who expect Knizner to jump to AAA are likely to be disappointed is a personal hypothesis, and we are all due our personal opinions. To clarify, as mentioned by others, Knizner has has only played at AAA for 1 game and been in the minor league for two seasons, so your assessment may be yet premature; time and opportunity will tell.
Additionally, in regard to your statement saying there is a likelihood that folks will experience disappointment if they expect Knizner to jump to AAA and do well , I will remind you that there is a contingent of people who expected Kelly to move up to St. Louis who have been disappointed, too. Kelly is a talented catcher, but offensively he has 6 years in the majors to prove he can bat and has just not done so. We all keep hoping it will happen, but he can’t seem to find the groove to bat much above .200 lately, or for that matter, for his entire career. I do sincerely wish both of these players luck in improving areas that need to be addressed. My projection is a bit different from yours in regard to the future, however. In a perfect world, Knizner and Kelly both do well next season, BUT Knizner backs up Molina and gets a decent amount of playing time and Kelly gets a bench role as 3rd C/position backup of some sort/bench bat in St Louis. As I said previously, only time will tell.May 19, 2018 at 1:01 pm #53167
1776 -i would like it if both Knizner and Kelly constantly pushed each other for the backup role and starter when Molina leaves.In my way of thinking Knizner could be a solid Catcher/1B option in the future.I also want Kelly to develop offensively.Nothing wrong with having several versatile capable guys who are young and under team control.Knizner`s bat should work wherever he plays C-1B.May 19, 2018 at 2:10 pm #53181
Pena keeps up last night’s performance, he may be the next contender as future full time catcher! A surprise, for sure, but it was great to see him rock it!May 19, 2018 at 3:57 pm #53205
Interesting quote from todays radio broadcast has Mike Shannon saying most times you steal on the pitcher, not the catcher. He mentioned Lou Brock as thinking that way.May 19, 2018 at 7:30 pm #53242
Interesting comment on stolen bases for the the St. Louis Cards made earlier today : “The #STLCards have allowed 13 stolen bases and have not thrown out a runner trying to steal this season, only team in the majors not to do so.” … tweeted by Rob Rains, St. Louis @Cardinals beat writer, https://Stlsportspage.comMay 19, 2018 at 7:41 pm #53246
Uh, oh. Molina has clearly lost it. 😉May 19, 2018 at 8:01 pm #53248
Uh, oh. Molina has clearly lost it. ?
Haha! I don’t think so, but the quote seemed like an appropriate addition to the thread given the intense focus on stolen bases! 😉May 21, 2018 at 4:23 pm #53485
With the almost disappearance of the running game. Knizners bat will play much better in this era. I am thinking he is no Yadi, but that’s an unfair comparison. Perhaps more comparable bat to Ted Simmons, who was not a great defensive catcher, but called a good game and hit very well. I think Knizner could play a lot at first until Yadi retires. He surely would be no worse than Martinez’ defense. But that would require trading Martinezwho has really been our best hitter so far.May 21, 2018 at 6:23 pm #53488PadsFSParticipantFree
13 is also the least amount of attempts against any team.
The Angels (best) have allowed 11 of 17 attempts and the Mets (worst) have allowed 40 of 49 attempts.
Clearly Molina still has the runners fearful.May 23, 2018 at 4:53 pm #53814
So does Baron get DFAed for Reyes or do they keep him around and demote a catcher from Memphis? Jeremy Martinez may be packing this weekend. Or do they still try to convince us that Knizner isn’t ready?
Carson Kelly heading to Memphis for 2 game rehab assignment. Will catch Alex Reyes tomorrow. Expects to join #STLCards Sat in Pittsburgh.
— Rob Rains (@RobRains) May 23, 2018May 23, 2018 at 8:55 pm #53824CariocaCardinalParticipantPaid - Monthly
When Reyes comes off the 60 day I think we will find out how serious of an injury Leone hasMay 24, 2018 at 8:49 am #5384314NyquisTParticipant
FO may want to get JeMartinez more playing time at Springfield now that he is hitting a bit better.May 24, 2018 at 2:16 pm #53863BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
So the Cardinals have allowed 14 stolen bases this year without throwing anyone out. That seems pretty bad upfront but 14 stolen bases is actually 2nd in the league in allowed stolen bases. Coincidentally, Molina has only allowed 7 of those stolen bases. Here is list of Cardinals catchers with the amount of innings catching and allowed stolen bases:
Molina: 256.1 innings – 7 SB
Kelly: 44 innings – 2 SB
Pena: 125 innings – 4 SB
Baron: 10 innings – 1 SB
Clearly the Molina factor is in play here. Baserunners are simply not running on Molina.June 5, 2018 at 10:41 pm #55428blingboyParticipantPaid - Annual
What if Kelly and Knizner are both in Memphis and healthy at the same time, who plays and who sits? Obviously, the send Kelly to Memphis so he can play thing is getting awkward.
And for what it is worth, Rick Hummel now says he thinks Kelly won’t hit enough and Knizner is the heir apparent.June 6, 2018 at 7:13 am #55438
Good to see you posting again, bling. My speculation is that they will use the DH and 1B (for Knizner) to give them both at-bats. The challenge at first is not as bad (Ravelo), as long as Voit remains with St. Louis. When he is sent back down, the playing time logjam will increase.
However, if you believe that Knizner is the new leader, then he is the one who should get more time behind the plate, since that is his area that most needs improvement. As Kelly needs to figure out his offense.
They tried to avoid this at the start of the season by artificially holding Knizner back at Springfield, but all of the catching injuries scuttled that plan.June 6, 2018 at 8:27 am #55444
Knizner should get priority catching. His versatility increases his value, as long as he keeps hitting. Ideally, Kelly DH’s, then catches every other game, or a little less. Knizner catches more often, DHs, and then plays first, with every fourth or fifth day off. Does Knizner have a chance for a September callup? Obviously, a 40 man roster move has to take place. Or perhaps a trade opens up a spot. I think Knizner would liven up a stagnant STL offense. If this happens, Voits roster spot seems in jeopardy, unless Reyes is moved back to the 60 day DL>
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