Jose Martinez…

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  • #116136
    AvatarGameCard
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    Does he get moved at the Winter Meetings?

    #116144
    Avatar858booyah
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    No!

    He might actually be our starting LF for about half the season. They aren’t doing anything to address the situation with the gaping hole in the offense with Ozuna leaving. Might as well put the bat first player in LF until whomever is ready to concern.

    #116159
    Avatargscottar
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    I hope they do move him. We have 10 other guys who can hit enough to play LF and not give you a heart attack in the field.

    #116165
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    While fans may want to see him traded, that is different from the question asked, which is whether the team will move him this coming week.

    The same reason people want him traded is why he may not be tradeable – at least for any value.

    My question is why another team would want him at this point. His offensive stats have declined each year such that he was a below MLB-average hitter last season. In fact, his 2019 OPS was slightly lower than whipping boy Dexter Fowler.

    And we already know what Martinez brings on defense.

    I believe the Cards would get very little in trade for him. As noted, the primary benefit would be clearing space in the outfield for a younger, more promising player.

    To come back to the original question, I could see them waiting until spring training is over before doing anything with Martinez. Likely they will keep him, though, since they gave him a two-year deal a year ago. The money isn’t a big deal, but they basically committed a roster spot to him.

    #116166
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    IMO, JMartinez is an ideal 26th man.

    #116167
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Some believe Ravelo could play the same role. Is his ceiling higher than Martinez’ current level?

    #116170
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Martinez offers some extra value that you won’t find in any sabermetrics. I find the guy exciting to watch at the plate. He had some clutch hits during 2019. Maybe HE can make a COMEBACK in 2020 also and pick his average up again.

    I’d rather see him putting effort into his play in right-field as opposed to the other guy dogging it.

    #116172
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    Ravelo and Martinez are similar players offensively. Minor league stats like avg, obp, and slg are nearly identical. However, I believe Ravelo is an average defender and base runner, whereas Martinez is below average. And finally, Ravelo is 4 years younger.

    #116176
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    14NyquisT wrote:

    I’d rather see him putting effort into his play in right-field as opposed to the other guy dogging it.

    The incorrect underlying assumption is that those are the only two alternatives.

    #116178
    AvatarMPWR2
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    The same reason people want him traded is why he may not be tradeable – at least for any value.

    My question is why another team would want him at this point.

    I am not sure why the Cardinals need to get any “value” for him. They gave up cash (probably not much) to acquire him. The analysis should strictly be:

    Is value (Jose Martinez) > value (roster spot)?

    #116180
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    MPRW2, that is essentially what I said in the rest of my post.

    (However, what they paid for him is irrelevant to his current value.)

    #116182
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    My thoughts are this. I believe the front office has talked to clubs about a deal involving Jose, but undoubtedly there was little interest or the Cardinals felt there was not enough value in return.

    So I think he will be a Cardinal in Spring Training and likely on the opening day roster, especially if Ozuna is in another uniform. How it goes from there will depend on what the season holds, but most likely Jose is on another club or out of MLB by 2021.

    He sort of fits the mold of an ideal player in the Japan league.

    #116184
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    I don’t think JMart’s defense is as bad as it looks. What I mean is that getting to the ball for him looks as goofy as can be sometimes. But he almost always makes the play. And I do remember noticing that a misplay by CMart hardly ever hurts the score. (Just don’t put everybody on edge by having him in the outfield in late innings.) I like the energy that he brings to the game, and I’m thinking that his offense is better than what he showed last season. I do wish he would get a decent haircut and knock off some of his antics. If there’s a need for antics during the season to keep his teammates loose, let somebody else do it.

    #116188
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    This might be a better set of questions?

    1) Will one of Bader, Fowler, JMart, O’neill, Arozarena, Thomas, Adolis Garcia or Justin Williams be on another team a week from today?
    2) Which one is most likely?
    3) Which one would you wish is gone?

    I would guess only a 33.3% that one of them is on another team, with Bader being most likely and the obvious answer for everyone to #3 is Fowler.

    #116189
    AvatarMPWR2
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    1. Yes
    2. O’Neill is most likely
    3. a. Fowler b. JMart c. Adolis Garcia

    • This reply was modified 7 months ago by AvatarMPWR2.
    #116204
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    My thoughts on JMart (BTW I like him): Without JMart there is a good probability that the Cardinals would not have swept the Cubs in that 4 game series at the end of the season. That would have possibly given the Brewers the division championship and left the Cardinals at home. EOS

    #116213
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    MPWR, where and for what do you think O’neill will be going? Matt Boyd? 🙂

    #116216
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    I would not be surprised if by mid-season next year the Cardinal outfield is O’Neill, Arozarena, and Thomas, with Dex the fourth guy filling in at all three spots. The only thing about that is you would prefer a lefty swinger in one of those positions.

    Bader cannot be counted out due to his defensive skills. If he can be more aggressive on good pitches and avoid the bad ones more consistently, hit could hit .280 with a little pop. The question is whether or not he ever does that.

    Again, JMart probably sticks as a pinch-hitter, occasional starter. His goofiness does not bother me. He looks to be one of the more passionate rah-rah guys on the team, and my sense is he brings a refreshing looseness to the clubhouse.

    #116217
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    I think to start the season it will be:
    LF-O’Neill
    CF-Bader
    RF-Edman
    Back-ups will likely be Fowler & Arozarena with Carlson being added maybe by June.

    #116225
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    GameCard, O’neill in LF sounds fine with a solid spring, just get the guy some AB’s!! Harry Borjous should be traded while he still has value so I’m hopefully disagreeing with that one, opening CF up for Thomas/Arozarena. Sadly, Dexter Fowler will be your starting RF due to them not willing to admit a big mistake and eat some of his salary.

    #116292
    sheepdawgsheepdawg
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    Stick O’Neill and LF, I saw enough of him here in Memphis that I feel he deserves a good shot at starting besides he’s a lot of money saved that could be used to find a competent closer.

    I like J. Martinez’s crazy antics too, every bench needs it’s comedian. He’s always been good in the clutch also, he’s your 26th man.

    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by sheepdawgsheepdawg.
    • This reply was modified 6 months, 4 weeks ago by sheepdawgsheepdawg.
    #116368
    AvatarSoonerinNC
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    Fowler will be a starter when the season opens. He will have to perform to keep his job. Too many talented guys coming up behind him for even his lofty salary to keep him on the field. Hard to see him traded even if we eat a chunk of his salary. Few teams need an average to below average fielder who doesn’t hit that well. His biggest value is his on base skills as he is one of the few Cardinals that generated long counts by fouling off marginal pitches. But he strikes out way too much to be a leadoff man.

    #117492
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    Brian…do expect Jose Martinez to be on the Cardinals Opening Day 26-man roster?

    #117496
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Yes.

    #117500
    Avatar858booyah
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    Yes he’ll be there.

    I agree the more we hear nothing the more it’s likely we see some LF out of him.

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