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1982 said:
Great Article on some cbs site about how the Rockies owner isn’t happy about the padres spending so much money. Said it puts pressure on other teams. Love it. To me it tells you small market teams can spend it, not just the Yankees or the dodgers of the sport.
You can bet if Monfort put his team up for sale, there would be a line of bidders wanting to get in. Wonder why that would be?
Wealthy owners don’t want expenses to exceed revenues. That’s not a mystery. It’s a business principle.
Greedy players and agents could care less about a team’s solvency. Some fans, too. They want the wealthy owners who have invested into other companies that show a profit and ROI, to come out of their personal pockets to gush more money out to players in order to please them as fans and heighten their recreational experience.
We would have to know what total revenue and total expenses is before anything meaningful can be said about player payroll expenditures. But I would agree that different owners have different business strategies. I think BDW knows what it takes to keep his money gusher going and he does that whilst minimizing risk to profitability.
https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/chafian01.shtml
I really hope they are bidding on Chafin. Somewhere I saw a 2yr/18M deal thrown around, that seems more than reasonable for a lefty reliever who’s had a 3.00 or under ERA the last 3 years.
Or at least Brad Hand on a 1 year deal…..
Considering inflation is 10%, I don’t believe they have “increased payroll” one bit.
Thoughts?
BB – BDW’s goal is to put as good a product on the field as possible. When you go out to have a good steak with your wife, do you sit there and gripe about how much money the owner of the restaurant probably makes?
If BDW has a fault, it’s that he enjoys watching prospects progress through the system. He’s a Brian Walton in that regard. Loves to see his minor league managers, coaches, and instructors help kids fulfill their hopes and dreams.
BB – BDW’s goal is to put as good a product on the field as possible.
It is to put as good a product on the field as possible, within the constraints of an internal budget.
If BDW has a fault, it’s that he enjoys watching prospects progress through the system. Loves to see his minor league managers, coaches, and instructors help kids fulfill their hopes and dreams.
I am sure that is true but part of the reason he likes the minor leaguers so much is because they are inexpensive. Those players wouldn’t be as cute and cuddly if they cost more.
Of course that’s one of the reasons, gscottar. It would be one of your reasons too if you were one of the Cardinal owners.
Yes I am a fairly frugal person. I like a good deal as much as the next person but I would also want to feel comfortable that I was using every tool in my toolbox to make sure my team could compete against the elite teams of the NL. Our great fanbase, who is usually top 2 or 3 in attendance, deserves that.
When you go to a restaurant, they give you enough to keep you coming back. Giving you more than that cuts into their profit and gets them nothing in return. Pretty much any business runs along those lines.
gscottar – If other teams can spend much more money than you can (mainly because of cable contracts), what are the other tools in your toolbox?
Is San Diego’s cable contract much bigger than St Louis’? Because they certainly seem to be willing to spend more, despite similar market size.
The cardinal owners have more money than they let on. Plus all these network deals MLB has done has put plenty of money in teams coffers. Like I say, if the Cardinals were like the pirates and had nobody coming to their games or buying their merchandise, I would sympathize, but not the case. Cardinals for their market size, are probably the most supported team in all of sports or at least close. Comparing the Cardinals to eating out is pure nonsense. Not going to get into that bull.
bcran, do you know with absolute certainty that the Cardinals would be unprofitable if they ran a payroll of $200M or more? I think we are all just commenting on varying degrees of informed speculation.
Each team owner has to decide their priorities, whether it be profitability, championships, or some combination of both. Since the books are closed none of us truly know what the real numbers are but I am operating under the assumption that the Cardinals are not fully utilizing the financial resources they have at their disposal.
You’re right, gscottar. They have some dry powder which enables them to move when it becomes apparent in what direction they need to move. Maxing out payroll at the beginning of the season probably wouldn’t be wise.
I’d like to see payroll cut by 2/3, and ticket prices cut by 2/3. The amount of money thrown around in sports is absurd. What’s wrong with us?!
And I’d also like to see the cow jump over the moon.
Mudville – do you mean baseball players shouldn’t make 500 times more tha your pastor? Or a school teacher, nurse, EMT, fireman, etc.?
bccran, those are false equivalencies. What you would like to see and the real world are nowhere close to being in sync.
Well, Brian, by my math $50,000 a year times 500 equals $25,000,000 a year. If you think a baseball player is worth that much more than a pastor, nurse, fireman, EMT, teacher, etc. then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
I feel that the economics of today’s game being such as they are, sometimes is the catalyst for many fans to lose sight that the goal remains to outplay the other team on the field as opposed to outspending the competitive field of different organizations. I also think that teams are sometimes victimized by this same self induced illusion. Obviously teams have to part ways with some money to fill a roster and be competitive, but I think the crux of the biscuit to success is to both man a handful of key areas with the majority of funds deemed available and then trust in a farm system to produce enough talent to fill out a competitive roster. And the proverbial kicker may well be to retain a field manager and coaching staff with the neccessary experience, knowledge and guts to place those players around the field and in the line-up that’s most conducive to success. TLR not only tenured for quite a while with the Cardinals, but also surrounded himself with names like Dave Duncan, Jose Oquendo and Dave McKay who were all longtime solid fixtures of his coaching staff. That sort of Cardinal field management and coaching stability has been as rare as Redbird post-season success for a pretty long stretch now.
I should also mention Whitey Herzog who surrounded himself in the dugout with names like Hub Kittle, Red, Hal Lanier and Dave Ricketts.
I agree that having a veteran manager in the dugout for long periods of time served the Cardinals well. From 1980 to 2011 it was Herzog, Torre, and LaRussa. Not too shabby although Torre was never given much to work with. He did ok with the Yankees though.
But by the time LaRussa left Bill Dewitt had already decided that the organization was going to do business in a different way. Jocketty was out and in was Mo and Lunhow, with much more of an emphasis on build from within and analytics. Old school veteran managers often don’t go well with analytics therefore we have had three rookie managers in a row. Based just on regular season w-l records Matheny, Shildt, and Marmol have done fine but our postseason performance in those years have been shabby. It is what it is. The Cardinals are now a top down organization so I don’t know if we will see a veteran skipper in the dugout anytime soon. The guys in the front office like to be in on a lot of the decisions.
Edit: I would have loved to have hired Francona in 2012. But I also don’t really like all of the Marmol bashing. Let’s give him a chance.
I should also say that I am not one of those fans who think the season is a disappointment if the Cardinals don’t win the World Series. Not even close. It is too hard to do. And I know we aren’t going to spend like the Mets. That is unreasonable.
However, I also realize that the Cardinals are not the A’s, Rays, Marlins, or Pirates. The Cardinals are an iconic franchise with a fan base second to none. We might not have the best tv deal but when you finish second or third in attendance every year that tells me that you have plenty of money.
I think winning a World Series once a decade is a reasonable goal. At a minimum we should appear in one once a decade. We have now gone ten years since an appearance and twelve years since a championship. I would like to see the sense of urgency taken up a notch.
bccran said:
If you think a baseball player is worth that much more than a pastor, nurse, fireman, EMT, teacher, etc. then we’ll just have to agree to disagree.
You miss the point. What you and I think about salaries in various fields is irrelevant to the topic at hand. In any open economic system, one must pay competitive salary rates for specialized skills. When one doesn’t want to pay competitive rates, you risk falling behind the competition.
Though I do admit that your explanation of your thinking helps us understand some of what is behind your unwavering support of ownership.
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