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interesting…id be quite happy adding a slugger like Stanton…even with the money and opt out option in 2020
and id guess the more money we take on the lesser the prospects they want back…so id think they’d keep a bit of the contract too to get better prospects which we can offer
You do know that Stanton said he does not want to live in the Midwest. He has a NTC…he can veto any trade to the Cardinals.
mspaid/nate, if the Marlins want to trade Stanton, they will negotiate their way out of his NTC, as has been done with many others in the past, most recently Mike Leake.
Please share where Stanton said that he does not want to play in the Midwest. As far as I know, the original source was a friend of mine, Craig Mish of SiriusXM. Craig was clear that it was the feeling of someone he spoke with in the Marlins org, but that Stanton himself had said nothing about it. As you probably know, organizations have been known at times to embellish situations to further their negotiating position. Did that happen here? Who knows?
No one seems to know for sure what Stanton thinks. Certainly not me or you…
https://theintrepidstl.com/giancarlo-stanton-not-trade-cardinals
Word is the new Marlins owners want to cut payroll significantly, which would almost have to start with Stanton. Again, only rumors, though.
For the Cardinals to acquire Stanton, there are a few things that need to happen:
1. They need to trade Dexter Fowler and his $16.5 million per year contract.
2. They need to get the Marlins to pay $5 million per year over the last 4-5 years of the contract. This will increase the prospect cost.
3. They need to be willing to eat at least $5 million per year (maybe even $10 million per year) over the last 4-5 years to trade him to an AL team after he turns 33 or so…which is still 6 years awayHere’s what DeWitt said earlier in the year:
““As you can see, some of the long-term free agent contracts don’t really work out toward the end. Clubs wish they hadn’t done them.”
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jose-de-jesus-ortiz/ortiz-if-pujols-was-too-expensive-for-cards-so-is/article_4db83206-5aba-51a7-9dfd-87c820ba01d4.htmlMaybe missing the playoffs twice in a row has convinced him he needs All-Stars on the team, maybe it hasn’t.
I would vote no on acquiring Stanton. That contract will be an albatross. I would prefer a cheaper veteran bat like Cargo or Bruce. Get either one of them plus Donaldson then you have the making of a nice lineup.
What is “big” may depend on your point of reference. Bruce hit 36 home runs and drove in 101.
The 2017 Cards leaders were 25 (DeJong) and 82 (Molina).
DeJong did that in 2/3 of a season. 417 at bats. 443 plate appearances. He had zero plate appearances in April, and only 11 in May.
Cargo or Bruce would be similar to the Berkman and Beltran acquisitions and those turned out well. Also, if you read my post again you will notice that I said add Cargo or Bruce AND Donaldson.
1B Carp
CF Pham
3B Donaldson
RF Cargo/Bruce
LF Fowler
C Molina
SS DeJong
2B Wong
PThat is a deep, dangerous lineup.
Bruce would be a great addition. He had 36 home runs and 102 RBI in 617 plate appearances. DeJong had
25 home runs and 65 RBI in 443 plate appearances. I know it doesn’t work this way, but if you gave DeJong
the same plate appearances as Bruce, it would be 35 home runs and 91 RBI. Those 2 might be a pretty good
#3 and #4 in the lineup even w/o Donaldson.Bruce has averaged 28 home runs and 88 RBIs with a line of .237/.303/.457/.760 over the last 4 years. I don’t think he will be worth the money. I don’t think he upgrades us very much. Aim higher.
Does anyone think Stanton won’t opt out after 2020…unless he gets really hurt, i cant see why he wouldn’t want to cash in as long as he is playing well…he will only be 30 right? we shouldn’t really be expecting a big drop off in production without injuries…
sure…he’d a have around 225 million left on the contract shoudl he opt out… coudl he get a big enough contract to opt out? I dunno…but the way salaries are trending up and if he keeps hitting HRs liek he is…perhaps he coudl…
i mean Upton opted out this year and he left a lot of money on the table
i dunno…i just dont think we can automatically assume he wont opt out in 2020 shoudl we acquire him…if he does, then so be it…if not yeah…it coudl be an albatross…no doubt…but i cant imagine he’d tail off too much until 33 or 34 right? sure injuries and all that…but if he tails off to hit only 30 HRs and drive in 80 RBIs is that really all that bad… sure for the 30mil he might get in a year that might seem too much money but that is a long way from now…
he is a gamble…MArlins know this better than anyone…a game that they couldnt afford it ends up being…even when he is playing well they cant afford him…well they cant afford enough other players to utilize his performance well enough…
now the Cardinals have more resources to take advatnage of what he really brings, and a much healthier farm system to help supplant his high cost with lower cost players when needed…
anyways…i like Bruce as a 2nd big bat…but id want something more dependable and less streaky too shoudl we go that route
Which reminds me, I really wish the Cardinals would stop offering their younger players long term contracts. Rarely does it work.
Wong- The first couple of years were terrible. He put up good numbers this year but was hurt too often.
C. Martinez- I would argue that contract hasn’t been worth it so far. His peripheral numbers are pretty good but when it comes to crunch time he has not performed as an ace. He is a number 2 starter at best.
Piscotty: That contract has obviously been a mistake so far. Maybe he can turn it around but we are paying him much more than we had to for only hope. Is he the next Allen Craig?
Lynn: Overall not a bad value. 2 of 3 years were good with one TJ year.
Craig: Let’s not forget him. That contract was a disaster. Luckily the Red Sox bailed us out.
Why not just allow the young players go year to year in arbitration and make them earn the dollars? I get the cost certainty argument but too often these youngsters sign on the dotted line then start to fizzle. It can’t be a coincidence.
gscottar
Participant
You don’t think Bruce is a big upgrade over Piscotty? I sure do.
How much and for how long do you think you have to sign him for? How long will he earn that contract?
We have some prospects that will be blocked if we sign Bruce and I think the prospects could outperform him in 2 years. Also, which Piscotty will we have next year? The one who hit 22 home runs and slashed .273/.343/.457/.800 or the 2017 version? If we get the 2016 version, that outperforms Bruce’s last 4 years average.
I would be fine with signing Bruce for 1 year. Anything more and it’s a mistake. Aim higher.
Bruce is 4 years younger than Berkman or Beltran were when we signed them. I am pretty sure he will want to sign for more than 2 years.
Going the trade route is going to likely cost Cards several young arms and with the questions hanging over the rotation why weaken one of your assets?Every team wants more pitching especially young cheap pitching.What good does it do to get a Stanton or Ozuna or Yelich if your rotation consistently fails to keep you in the game and your bullpen is questionable also.Keep the young arms and try and trade some of your OF surplus to bolster the bullpen.It seems all a Free agent signing cost is money and there are upgrades available at several spots. Plenty of options (JD Martinez, Jay Bruce, or Hosmer 1B,Moustakas 3B).
Start by going after JD Martinez for big RH bat.Then Moustakas 3B LH bat S’s decent defense.Then Jay Bruce RF as a fallback option if others go elsewhere.Hosmer stays in KC I think.He is KCs top priority so I think KC will overpay to keep him.As for Justin Upton who knows if and why he would opt out of a 22 million per year deal?Plus he does have a lot of swing and miss in his game although since he is not named Grichuk its probably okay with the Save crowd.If my boss said, “hey, we are moving you from St Louis to Seattle, but about your no trade clause”…. my first question would be “what NTC, when can my plane leave?”
From D Goold:
“While the bulk of Giancarlo Stanton’s $300-million deal is unappetizing the bat is not, and the Cardinals will explore discussions with Miami about him and the other two outfielders there, Christian Yelich and Marcell Ozuna.”
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