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The discussion started today on the above subject simply has no place on this board. Therefore, the moderators have unanimously decided to remove it.
If you are so new to The Cardinal Nation to be confused about what is acceptable and what is not, please familiarize yourself with the site rules here:
There are plenty of other forums where these types of subjects are welcome. However, here we discuss St. Louis Cardinals baseball.
P.S. I am not interested in receiving either objections or praise. Our decision is final. Move on and move ahead.
I hope you read the post before you deleted it.
Again, I prefer my sports without politics for sure but; the players and the leagues are not giving us that choice.
ZTR
It’s just too, too bad that the Cardinals management team doesn’t do the same thing that The Cardinal Nation management team does.
I do understand the need for it. I just wish professional sports understood the need for it, also.
The MLB players are making the choice to involve themselves in politics. They have gone “Hollywood” in thinking that fans care what they think but they are forgetting one thing. There are NO FANS in the stands now so their actions can’t be judged by attendance. There are no politics to be discussed on fan boards so their actions can’t be judged there either. In summary, it is the fan’s choice to accept or not accept the actions of the MLB players. But if every political group in this country makes an effort to have professional athletes join in their protestations it will become very damaging to professional sports. That is all I have to say and I hope I said it in a neutral way but I do have my own opinion.
There are other venues for athletes to be active. Go out and march if you feel like it. Fine. But keep it away from the game.
We all have our different opinions and viewpoints but I think we would all be better off if we stuck to baseball on here, and maybe food. 🙂
Trying to referee the Fox crowd and MSNBC crowd would be a complete disaster. I don’t blame Brian for not wanting to mess with that. I know I wouldn’t. I don’t enjoy reading it. I usually only interject after someone else has started a thread they shouldn’t have but I would much prefer to talk baseball.
gscottar, I get your point but there is a major difference here. This IS baseball. The players are bringing it in so you can’t just ignore it. If we were fighting right vs left on here it would be grounds for dismissal but when games are being postponed for political reasons fans are affected. I have opinions but I will not put them out here so my only point is that this is not fans talking politics – it is players and they are doing it knowing that the fan reaction will vary with the sport. I know which way NBA will lean but I don’t have a clue or care about how NHL fans lean. Dex and Jack have brought it into the Cardinals house. That should not be ignored. Dan says all the players support them. That is questionable but maybe so and maybe not. Fan reaction is not available because that will be shown in attendance. In short, play ball and dump the politics – nobody cares what the players think but they have the impression that they can change minds. In short I don’t see any winning side with their actions.
The way I see it is that the only way to solve any of this is through honest, open dialogue. The problem is that honest, open dialogue is not possible at this point in time. People just can’t do it. Instead of actually talking to people about their thoughts and feelings, they start spouting their political dogma about what is absolutely, positively right, and what is absolutely, positively wrong. People refuse to listen to anything that doesn’t align with their belief structure. For that reason, anything that is politically charged needs to stay off the board. All it’s going to do is create turmoil and hard feelings. At some point people will have to actually talk to one another, and when we see that happening around us, it should be safe to do that here.
Speaking of hard feelings, I wish BW would apologize to Game Card. BW was unnecessarily trigger happy when he went after Game Card and blocked him.
mud, you do not know what you do not know and it is not appropriate for me to share what is covered privately with individual posters. Suffice it to say that no one (other than spammers) is blocked.
Following the clearly posted rules isn’t hard for the vast majority of our posters. And those who believe the rules are not for them and defy moderator requests to follow said rules made the right decision to go elsewhere.
I think GameCard had a Tommy Edman-like sophomore slump. 😉
Seriously though, what mud says is true…open, honest dialogue is needed. The problem is that this isn’t just a bunch of us sitting at a restaurant watching the Cards play. It’s the internet, with all the associated bravado and anonymity that comes with it. People feel compelled to delve the depths of dehumanization of others and it benefits no one. I feel the heaviness of the racial and political tension like everyone else, and wish that sports was a nice escape from it. But athletes are people too, with hopes and dreams and families and fears. We’d all do well to remember that.
That said, I applaud the rules here and think it is in everyone’s best interest to think of others before they post inflammatory non-Cards related opinions. As much as I enjoy the back and forth between gscottar or bccran or thejager on Shildt, the offense or crazy trades, I’d like that to be where our public disagreement ends and we can all enjoy the team we love without thinking less of each other over it.
Well it is true that the players are bringing these social issues into the sport therefore it is hard to ignore. The problem, as others have eloquently stated, is that it doesn’t seem possible to rationally discuss these issues without everyone retreating to their corners, pointing fingers, and basically saying that if you don’t agree with my viewpoint then something is bad wrong with you.
And what is the result of that? People get mad, get their feelings hurt, and either leave the board or say things they shouldn’t say and may regret later. That doesn’t sound like a good business model for this site therefore I think Brian’s preferred rules for sticking to baseball is wise.
I am mad at only one group. The players. No matter what side of an issue they take that is not baseball they insult some of their fans. Wise up and shut up guys.
Political discussions most of the time cause some sparks to fly. Best to keep those type of discussions off TCN.
Baseball players are human with human emotions. Telling them to just shut and ignore their emotions like they are some kind of robot is nonsensical. Players are more than just entertainers for your fancy and dismissing them like that is shortsighted. Furthermore,I agree with Brian and others to take this topic elsewhere because this site has always been above the vitriol that plagues online discussions. There are other sites where you can take your opinion.
You know what BHC. There has been no vitriol on this thread. I am sure Brian has been sitting there with whatever tool he uses as a moderator ready to take it down when/if that should happen. But what it has turned into has been a non-political discussion regarding the players actions and not of any particular political sides of the posters here. Everybody says keep the site to baseball but it is the players who themselves have brought politics into baseball so I feel we should feel free to discuss them doing that. My main point is that they are doing what they are doing in a pretty chicken way knowing that there is NO fan attendance anyway so they can’t be razzed or criticized at the stadium. Kind of like me being criticized as I curse while sitting on the toilet…..who is to whine? There are no others in there. And now let’s see if they can overcome those rotten performances of last night.
While there aren’t fans in the stadiums the games are still being played and aired on TV. If you don’t support the players who talk about current events that matter to them then boycott the games. I’m not even sure how fans being in attendance would even matter on this topic anyways. You think Cardinals fans would boo Flaherty for stating his beliefs?
Absolutely there are fans who would boo Flaherty for bringing his highly charged beliefs into MLB. No doubt about it. And the reason why is because their beliefs are just as charged as his are.
BHC wrote: I’m not even sure how fans being in attendance would even matter on this topic anyways.
I doubt anybody would be booing but my point was that attendance would drop by the number of fans who disapprove of the players bringing their personal opinions onto the field. It would be a visual thing like after the baseball strike – fans disapproved and they showed it at the turnstiles.
Interesting supposition. We will have to see next season. My experience over time has been that a segment of fans have noisily stormed off, angry at MLB and/or the Cardinals specifically, a number of times in recent years, but the TV ratings and attendance have not been substantially affected.
It is one thing to be vocal on social media. That is easy. Actually taking action and making it stick is another matter entirely.
The strike was different, IMO, because EVERY fan was upset that there was no baseball and they agreed on the common enemy. Those upset now are a subset of the overall fan community. Maybe it will prove to be a significant enough number to hit the bottom line and maybe not. I am guessing not until shown otherwise. Others may predict it differently.
As a fan of baseball, I feel sorry for those who do walk away from the sport for reasons other than the play of their favorite team on the field. But that is their right.
Most fans seem to come back after the storm passes.
To me, the differentiation right now is between the expressions by a few players vs. the cancellations of games. The latter shouldn’t happen.
Those who own businesses decide how they want to run them. That they choose to listen to their employees would normally be applauded – except when some folks don’t like the reason or the result. We can disagree with their collective action, but we don’t get a vote, other than later on with our money.
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