COVID19 Virus vs Baseball

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Viewing 25 posts - 426 through 450 (of 681 total)
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  • #128138
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #128168
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I received this as an email from the HV Renegades yesterday.

    If you want to know what to expect from the minor leagues:
    (the Hudson Valley Renegades are/were in the NYS/Penn League– short season A league)

    Hudson Valley Renegades COVID-19 Readiness Plan
    Dear Renegades Fans:

    In anticipation of the 2020 season the Hudson Valley Renegades have developed an extensive COVID-19 readiness plan which sets forth best practices and new standard operating procedures that the team believes are necessary for Dutchess Stadium to open when permitted. This detailed plan follows the journeys of fans, employees, and on-field personnel from the moment they arrive at the ballpark until the moment they leave. It addresses social distancing protocols throughout the facility and details enhanced cleaning and sanitation practices for before, during and after events. The attached document provides a summation of these practices and procedures.

    The plan adheres to current guidelines as provided by the CDC and the New York Department of Health. In an effort to develop a comprehensive and effective plan based on present day guidelines, the Renegades have shared this document with officials from Dutchess County government, and will update and modify as appropriate.

    Hudson Valley Renegades | 845-838-0094 | info@hvrenegades.com |
    hvrenegades.com
    HV Renegades, 1500 Rte 9D, Wappingers Falls, NY 12590

    Read this link for a better definition.

    https://files.constantcontact.com/924c75a0101/1599bebd-e51d-4550-a3b9-ec763f8f4396.pdf

    #128235
    Avatarblingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    If a player with a guaranteed contract declines to show up for scheduled games, what then? What if his wife or kid is vulnerable for some reason and he doesn’t want to risk bringing it home.

    #128236
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Those questions have not been resolved. At this point what we are hearing publicly is that MLB is trying to make everyone happy. We can only hope they are astute enough to conclude up front that likely will not include every single person in a union of 1,000 diverse people. Not everyone has the same risk-reward tolerance. My bet is that MLB understands that the faster and harder they push to start play, the more likely some players will be uncomfortable. I also bet MLB is probably not going to let that stop them.

    My personal hope is that common sense prevails and MLB and the union agree that players can opt out of playing this season if they so choose – without pay but also without repercussions. Of course, they cannot control what I guarantee will be an angry subset of internet tough guys who will expect them all to play no matter what.

    #128237
    Avatarblingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Yeah, I expect them to be willing to crash into each other at home plate if they want the big bucks, so maybe I’d be one of those tough guys. Man up or go flip burgers, grrrrrr.

    #128257
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Taiwan baseball has opened to fans. Fans have to sit in designated seats that create social distancing and are required to wear masks. Makes sense.

    #128358
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    #128384
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Reminder…

    #128656
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Sometimes one has to make decisions that simply make sense in the field during the heat of battle, without asking the General for his “protocol”.

    bccran, that is true. Otherwise we could replace our officers and NCOs with robots. However, leaders in the profession of arms should have those overarching “protocols” burned into them starting the day of swearing the oath. The “protocols” are shaped generally by our training on the UCMJ, LOAC, Code of Conduct, Geneva Conventions, etc., and specifically by the ROE for any MILOPS orders. Otherwise, you’re not ready to lead nor make critical decisions.

    The military analogy doesn’t translate well for many medical environments. It’s better for an ER, but definitely not for an ICU. Inefficiencies and ambiguities mean lives. ICUs are very structured and protocols are paramount. It’s unfortunate that litigious influences can push things to counterproductive extremes. There’s a reason malpractice insurance ain’t cheap. The “fog of war” is not a good defense here.

    I agree on the masks. Seems like common sense. My children felt the same. Leadership bungled it. It should’ve been a layup, not a half court hook shot. That’s what happens when trying to sprint in a bureaucracy. Many of the 18,000,000 you mentioned are too smart to not detect a funny smell when they sniff it. They want clear rationale, not awkward meandering. That doesn’t mean there’s not huge respect for what all those people at the top are doing. It just means there should be continuous review for improvement.

    #128658
    AvatarMinuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Euro – I’m a former military officer too.

    Well that makes a threesome – Retired Air Force officer here. I can agree on what both of you said about military protocols. I was with the Minuteman ICBM system for 19 of my 20 years including 4 years on a Missile Combat Crew which was a two man launch crew. We didn’t need to worry with ROEs because by the time we were called on we were cleared to launch by the President but our most stressful times were the perfection demanded by Strategic Air Command because we were handling nuclear weapons. 100% was the standard for any test or anything else where a measurement was required. It was NOT combat and I appreciate fully those who were the ground pounders. They had the toughest of jobs.

    On this virus I can truly say that our Administration is dealing with it the way any Army would fight a war but we sure started with little to no intelligence. It is and will continue to be a learning experience every day, week, month and possibly year to come. There is nobody or any political party that has a ‘best’ answer because, like fighting a war, it depends on what the enemy does. Being very contagious gives the enemy the initial advantage but as we develop ways to avoid contact and learn of ways to fight the enemy it seems to be a two sided war with two huge enemies – virus and economy and one has to be defeated or at least controlled while the other needs to be supported. MLB has a large part of the latter.

    I am no doubt in my twilight years at 80 so I tend to pay attention to things like the virus but I will admit that baseball is my absolute everyday love. I see a grim future for this season because there are so many things to be settled before the first ball is pitched that it may not be possible to even get to that point. In the past few days from what I have observed I have come to the conclusion that most major league players can survive for a year without pay even if they were on minimum major league salary. The minor leaguers and the ballpark personnel would need help or take on other jobs. There simply is no solution that is best for all involved but I think it would be best for baseball to just shut down for this season and I truly hope I am wrong on that but to start and then stop again would be disaster for the game. Kudos to both of you and thanks for your service.

    #128659
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    MM3…. great analysis of the way this tragic virus has attacked us. So difficult to nail down and to foresee what direction we are headed in. Its a real worldwide challenge. Has the US handled this properly? It depends what book that you’ll be reading on the other side.

    #128689
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Hey MM3, I’m curious if the AFSATCOM and IEMATS EAM systems mean anything to you?

    #128695
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Agree, MM. There’s a marked difference between the way the U.S. Army handles things vs. the USMC.

    Euro – maybe the difference is between protocal and procedure. Protocal is a general set of rules, whereas procedure is a precise way of doing things. I perhaps was mistaken in my terminology. Aren’t we talking about procedure here, when referring to social distancing, hand washing, masks, etc.? Those procedures are pretty self evident in the case of a pandemic. I went into a store yesterday and the sales person wasn’t wearing a mask. She also wasn’t social distancing, although a sign entering the store required that. I asked why she didn’t have a mask on. She responded “I don’t chose to”. I have a few choice comments. Sometimes we have to take a stand.

    #128699
    AvatarMinuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Hey MM3, I’m curious if the AFSATCOM and IEMATS EAM systems mean anything to you?

    Well to be honest, I retired in 1981 and my last duty as a launch officer was in 1969 so I do know that AFSATCOM was the way we received our Emergency Action Messages for things like Defcon changes and Launch orders but IEMATS I am sure was long after I left. SAC was always constantly testing their EAM system too – like at 3 am when I was sleeping in my concrete cocoon. Something like “Skybird this is Dropkick with an emergency action test message. This is a test. Acknowledge now.” And whoever was at the console had to push a button. I try to keep up with monthly Air Force magazine and daily AF emails but it appears they are loosing me more and more lately. The Space Force be with you……..LOL

    #128702
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    MM – I was USAF too, but in a different Command in a different job.

    #128703
    AvatarMinuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Hopefully if baseball is played this season we won’t see mandatory masks for the players in the dugout or when on base. That would be ridiculous. Since I use oxygen I found out yesterday – my first day out (for a doctor appointment) that my STL mask made by my wife with Cardinal material is not something I can tolerate very much -not for the Cards logos but because I have to breath out and that mask restricts my ability to do that very forcefully. COPD is an inability to EXPEL air, not intake it so I was constantly lifting up the mask whenever I was of social distance from anybody – all had masks. But I bet you are going to see some folks at the ballpark with masks (team affiliated personnel).

    #128705
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    bccran, as you note, there is a lot of gray area in communicating these kinds of things.

    I’ve been doing my food shopping at 3 different locations. The base commissary requires masks upon entry. In fact, the gate guards require you to show a mask for base entry. Retirees are currently limited to entering the base only on Mondays and Tuesdays. At Whole Foods in a nearby larger city, I see many people wearing masks. At Food Lion in a nearby small town, I see very few wearing masks, including employees. I went to the Post Office in that small town and the employee at the counter wasn’t wearing a mask. There was a clear plastic partition at the counter along with signs and markers telling customers to maintain distance. It surprised me that a federal employee transacting closely with customers wasn’t wearing a mask. Where’s the consistency in policy/guidelines with that?

    #128708
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Agree totally, Euro. The decision regarding an employee wearing a mask is normally left up to the owner of the business. A person at a checkout counter without a plastic shield and not wearing a mask is a situation asking for problems. As far as federal government employees, they should absolutely be required to wear masks if interfacing with the public. Are you sure an employee at the post office qualifies as a federal employee? They don’t wear masks at our local post office either.

    #128709
    AvatarMinuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    bccran, as you note, there is a lot of gray area in communicating these kinds of things.

    I see the same. All we do for groceries is pickups at Walmart or another chain near us. Buy some meals as takeouts at a local restaurant or fast food joints. The wife has gone into a store twice when the parking lot was empty early in the am just to look for a special item or two. They made such a stink about masks during the first few months but John Q Public could not get a mask – only health care people so folks started making them. My wife is a great seamstress so she used part of her stimulus money to buy a new sewing/embroidery machine and has put out several masks for us and our kids. But like ED the only place we have seen any mask consistency is at the emptiest places in town – hospitals and clinics. Evidently people are scared to even go to them unless it is a real emergency. When they allow fans to attend games it should get very interesting as to what the rules will be and how many will comply. I would guess they will not sell alcohol for a while so as not to get some folks ‘overstimulated.’…..LOL

    #128714
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    Well to be honest, I retired in 1981 and my last duty as a launch officer was in 1969 …

    I worked in the program and support office for those systems in my first assignment (mid 80s), so I learned a good bit about your world then. They were pretty stable and effective by the time I got my hands on them. We did semiannual acceptance testing on them at the combatant command centers. Got to do some interesting temp duty at SAC, PACOM and the nuclear bunker at Site R. I’m easily amused, but seeing a two-key transmission for the first time was so cool.

    #128716
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    bccran, USPS clerk/carriers are federal employees.

    #128720
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    To say USPS workers are “postal employees” and not “federal employees” is splitting hairs. The are compensated under the federal employee pay system administered by OPM (either CSRS or FERS). The USPS is an independent government agency, just like the CIA, Social Security Administration, EPA, FCC, etc. They all must adhere to the federal regulations established for their operations. Those federal regulations have the effect of law. Which brings us back to masks. I found this in a USPS press release dated April 30, which indicates they are following state and local guidelines. I guess this means they aren’t necessarily following the broader CDC guidelines.

    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    To reduce health risks for our employees and customers and to safeguard our operational and business continuity, the Postal Service is doing the following:

    Requiring that non-public facing Postal Service employees wear face coverings while at work, when proper social distancing cannot be achieved or maintained.

    In the local and state jurisdictions where there is an ordinance for the mandatory use of face coverings, we are voluntarily aligning by requiring that our public-facing Postal Service employees use face coverings.

    Requesting customers use face coverings while in our retail facilities located in jurisdictions that have implemented orders requiring use of face coverings by individuals within those jurisdictions.

    #128723
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Euro –

    I believe the USPS classifies as a quasi-federal agency. Are the CIA, SSA, EPA, FCC, etc. also quasi-federal agencies?
    You have my curiosity up.

    #128727
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    bccran, we’re going to earn a 3-hour credit in federal gov’t organizational studies with this discussion, haha. I don’t think quasi federal agency is an official term. I did a couple searches and didn’t find anything official. It generally refers to an entity that is privatized, but with some association to the federal gov’t.

    The USPS is not that. It is governed by Title 39 of the U.S. Code (Title 39 can be downloaded via the internet). It is 126 pages long, so I did a search for the term “quasi” and there was just one hit, which had nothing to do with our discussion (it was identifying the quasi-judicial duties of the Postal Judicial Officer).

    Chapter 2 of Title 39 talks about the organization of the USPS. Here is the very first paragraph:

    § 201. United States Postal Service
    There is established, as an independent establishment of the executive branch of the Government of the United States, the United States Postal Service.

    U.S. Code is not the smoothest read, but here is another summary that sounds convincing to me.

    Postal myths: #2 The USPS isn’t part of the federal government

    #128728
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Euro – I’m memory impaired, but Google an article by Ed O’Keefe of the Washington Post on November 10th, 2010 entitled “USPS Sees $8.5 billion Loss, Warns Congress It Will Be Broke By 2011.”

    By the way, what military service were you in? Thanks.

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