February 23, 2019 at 6:20 pm #82652stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
It would take some stretch to make Carlos Martinez the reliever a more valuable asset to the team than Carlos Martinez the starter. He’s been worth at least 3 WAR every year since he began starting, which is a huge bar for relief pitchers to cross. Not to mention the intangibles as he’s a good hitter and fielder for a pitcher (7th over the last two years amongst regular starters in wRC+, and 12th in fangraphs’ “Def” metric since 2015). To throw all those things away for saves when you’ve probably got several guys who can do the job pretty well seems short sighted.February 23, 2019 at 6:44 pm #82653
That’s what Mo said last winter. Numerous “internal options” for the 9th. Did you like the results?
We lucked out with Norris who signed at the start of ST, the rest of those options were purged mid-season.
“probably got” and “pretty well” is well short of Carlos abilities in the 9th. You know, a head buried in the sand can’t see at all, so maybe short sighted is the better view of the two.February 24, 2019 at 12:31 pm #82689gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
There are good arguments on both sides of this issue but the bottom line to me is I feel we have many more options at starter than we do at the back end of the bullpen, as JJ stated. If we had Brebbia, Hudson, Miller, Hicks, and CMart locked and loaded to go each day our starters would only have to give us 5 good innings and it is basically game over. (I know it isn’t that easy but you get my point).
By the way, Bud Norris is still unsigned. Why not bring him back on another cheap one year deal? I know he fizzled at the end of the year but he was our best reliever for the first 4 to 5 months. He wouldn’t have to be our closer this year. There was some noise about him not being a great clubhouse guy last year. Something about him riding Hicks pretty hard. I wonder if there is anything to that?
February 24, 2019 at 12:36 pm #82692
- This reply was modified 1 year, 3 months ago by gscottar.
gscottar, there was a five-page thread on the Norris-Hicks matter.February 24, 2019 at 12:54 pm #82695
Mo on FSM today re: Martinez: “The next three weeks will tell us a lot more on what role he will play this year.”February 24, 2019 at 1:00 pm #82696
I take that to mean, will Carlos shoulder allow him to get stretched out enough by opening day to carry a SP’rs workload.February 24, 2019 at 1:01 pm #82697
I sensed it might be referring to starting vs. relieving. In response, Danny Mac said his hope is that Martinez will be the closer. Mo did not say anything more about that.February 24, 2019 at 1:05 pm #82698
Yes, and if he can’t get stretched out we’re back to the 2nd half last season, working out of the pen.
There’s still the unanswered question of which role is better for his shoulder.February 24, 2019 at 1:11 pm #82699
Agree.February 24, 2019 at 3:12 pm #82710NJ315Participant
I don’t know what role is better for his shoulder. But his mental makeup is that of a closer.February 24, 2019 at 3:27 pm #82712
I would adjust that slightly by suggesting that he had not always been fully ready for his starts. But I do not think this matter is part of his DNA. I think it is his commitment level. That can change.February 24, 2019 at 10:40 pm #82725mspaidParticipantFree
What few games he closed last year it seemed like he enjoyed it…from his demeanor. I don’t think he has the mindset or the physical stamina to start all season succesfully.February 26, 2019 at 7:30 am #82794
Carlos Martinez was not at #Cardinals camp Monday as he sought a second opinion on his shoulder issues. Results to be clearly Tuesday, but team has already prepared for possibility he’ll contribute as a reliever or his throwing program will be delayed. https://t.co/xiWXfkt7xuFebruary 26, 2019 at 8:38 am #82797
Carlos Martinez’s right arm is now in a sling. Not sure what that means, medically, but this thing is not trending well.
— Mark Saxon (@markasaxon) February 26, 2019February 26, 2019 at 8:45 am #8279914NyquisTParticipantPaid - Annual
Here we go. It looks like it will be Hudson or Gant if Carlos isn’t ready.February 26, 2019 at 8:45 am #82800stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Yikes. Definitely doesn’t sound like things are going to go well in this one. I’d almost rather see them get the inevitable surgery out of the way now.February 26, 2019 at 9:03 am #82801mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
His contract extension isn’t looking so good for the Cardinals anymore.February 26, 2019 at 9:29 am #82804thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
His extension is still wonderful
his arm in a sling is bad
might make more sense as to why they have been dialing up the Reyes in the rotation verbiage lately
same goes for the shifting the blame of Carlos’ injury to Carlos and not them or their vigilance
i hate to be all conspiracy like but it is all pretty convenient….which i admit it might just be
a healthy Carlos makes this team much better no matter where he pitches…losing him is a big blow
you had to expect something bad coming on the injury front…we made it all the way to games before a major piece of the team went down
add in Ozuna probably not fielding until mid-march…ie throwing and shoulder is still bad…and all of a sudden our team is starting to look like it has a limpFebruary 26, 2019 at 10:47 am #82809PadsFSParticipantFree
Goold said he had a PRP injection. Usually, you have to put the arm in a sling when you get those kinds of things to allow everything to settle. The sling is not a big deal, except to the great Mark Saxon.February 26, 2019 at 1:32 pm #82825thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
i thought i read that the arm in a sling “MAY” be because of the cortisone injection
we will seeFebruary 26, 2019 at 1:43 pm #82827RatsbuddyParticipantFree
It just boggles my mind that some of these players, after having five months off, come to spring training and immediately they are hurt. Seems like it occurs every year. And now we have Martinez and Ozuna this year.
Geez, what did they do for five months?????February 26, 2019 at 4:56 pm #82852Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
What did he do…dyed his hair,partied with his buds…..yes….workout to get in better shape ..not so much.February 26, 2019 at 7:25 pm #82883mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Rat, Bw – I think that old George Bernard Shaw adage applies here ‘Youth is wasted on the young.’February 26, 2019 at 8:17 pm #82886Nigel TParticipantPaid - Three Months
Unfortunately Gant will beat out Hudson if they are comparable due to team control.
Gant making a dozen starts then being flipped for a pair of A ball starters with upside to a hopeful contender who suffers a significant injury. Hudson makes the next twelve, and he shifts to the pen as Reyes makes the final eight. That is my ideal number five starter if Martinez moves to the pen.
We fill in some of the minor league gap at A ball. Hudson makes twenty starts and still has 35 to 40 innings for the stretch and playoffs. Reyes conserves innings and builds strength until the end.February 26, 2019 at 8:37 pm #82887bccranParticipantPaid - Annual
How can a guy not work out in the off season to strengthen his arm and come into ST with the same problem he had at the end of last season? Mystifying.
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