Carlos Martinez shoulder injury

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This topic contains 100 replies, has 23 voices, and was last updated by Avatar gscottar 2 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #82355
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    More info on who did what or who did not.

    #82358
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    CariocaCardinal
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    Martinez. Interpreter. Fear. Sounds like a little kid that knows he has done something wrong.

    #82376
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I think the team needs to take a serious look at Clay Buchholz. My guess is at this point he can be had on a one year deal at way south of $5 million. I also think he would be solid out of the bullpen if he is not among the top 5 starters.

    #82380
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    gscottar
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    This CMart issue is starting to sound like Ozuna Part II. I thought the Cardinals gave each player a detailed description of expectations for the winter and was going to have close follow ups???? Didn’t I read that back in November?

    I know the team can’t literally force players to do everything they are supposed to do but there should be consequences for those who don’t. I don’t blame Mo for being irritated.

    #82396
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    14NyquisT
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    Is there any way to make a player workout/train within the organization’s scrutiny by including it in a player’s contract?

    #82402
    Brian Walton
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    No.

    #82409
    Ratsbuddy
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    I know the whole story probably isn’t know here.

    However, and I’ve said this many times before, I am growing weary of Carlos Martinez. And his goofy antics. Its time to fish or cut bait with him. The next time he puts on a Cardinal uniform if he doesn’t live up to expectations I’d see what I could get for him. Maybe a sack of potatoes if we are lucky.

    r/Rat

    #82499
    jj-cf-stl
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    A Mikolas extension would make entertaining a trade of Carlos less concerning.

    2020’s rotation would have a base of Mikolas, Flaherty, Gant, Hudson, Gomber and Ponce. A successful 2019 from Reyes with Cabrera and Helsey as depth coming really doesn’t feel like an alarming turnover.

    So yes, when a sell high opportunity presents itself it wouldn’t surprise me if the FO moved him.

    #82500
    stlcard25
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    So yes, when a sell high opportunity presents itself it wouldn’t surprise me if the FO moved him.

    Except Rats isn’t suggesting to sell high, at least by how I read it. If they can get a Sale-Quintana haul for him, I’d be ok with it, I guess. Injured Carlos or ineffective Carlos won’t bring anything like that.

    #82509
    jj-cf-stl
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    Yes, he went with “it’s time”, and i added a down the road sell high approach.

    #82511
    stlcard25
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    That’s fair, and to be clear, I wasn’t taking exception to your take. As is probably apparent by now, I get bothered by the people who want to trade Carlos because of “antics” such as the hair colors, cup stacking, or whatnot. If the main issue is performance related, I could get it, but it often seems there are far more spurious motives at work.

    That said, even if he never becomes an “ace,” a #2/3 starter at his contract is a steal so if the team trades him, it would be a sign to me that it’s a personal issue a la Tommy Pham.

    #82513
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    gscottar
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    The “sell high” concept rarely makes sense to me but it sure doesn’t make sense with a guy like CMart or for a team like the Cardinals. “Sell high” means you trade someone who you feel is overperforming and will eventually regress back to the norm and for teams who are looking to cash in on a big name player in exchange for prospects.

    If CMart started putting up ace like numbers most of us would feel like he is performing as we expect and for sure wouldn’t want to trade him, therefore, he will most likely always be a “sell low” candidate.

    #82524
    Brian Walton
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    I dunno, gscottar. It isn’t all about the results or Pham wouldn’t be in Tampa, I imagine. I do agree with those who would prefer to see an uptick in performance before they would even consider trading Martinez. His reputation as being a player not always fully committed was already out there and hurts his value either way.

    #82530
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    gscottar
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    There were a lot of good reasons to trade Pham: mediocre 2018, combustible personality, and a younger, cheaper player behind him who could be just as good. I’m not sure the Cardinals sold high on him.

    CMart has some baggage of his own for sure and it wouldn’t bother me if they shipped him out. I’m just saying I don’t see the team selling high on him because if his performance reaches that point they would rather keep him. I guess it depends on what level of an uptick we are talking about.

    #82533
    Brian Walton
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    Yes, how much of an uptick and for how long. Another factor is how well other potential top of the rotation replacements develop. As in the case of Pham, the emergence of a decent replacement in Bader made the trade easier to swallow.

    #82537
    jj-cf-stl
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    25,
    We’re on the same page here. I had the Tommy Pham thought also, because we have seen the FO sour on a player.

    Carlos’ affordable contract and a show of good health this season would bring a quality return, and give us all time to see how our depth develops this season.

    There will always be a Gio type innings eater if innings become a concern. But, a Mikolas extension, knowing you’ve locked down your top of the rotation guy, would need done first imo. Or acquire a TOR guy first.

    #82539
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    mudville
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    We still don’t have a lock down closer, and we’re not getting Craig Kimbrel. CMart was a lock down closer for awhile last season, and he could be that again this year. He is right in the prime of his career, and compared to other pitchers, his salary is not too high. (Compared to the real world, his salary is astronomically high.) Also, it’s possible that being in the closer role, and him knowing that everybody is depending on him to get that last out, might motivate him to screw his head on a little tighter. This ‘setback’ could be a blessing in disguise.

    #82540
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    NJ315
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    I agree. I have advocated for Martinez for closer for a while now.

    #82543
    Brian Walton
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    What is more valuable to the Cardinals – 200 innings of 2017 Martinez or 40 saves?

    And this assumes relief is no worse on his shoulder than starting every fifth day, which we don’t know yet.

    I get the focus point, but to me, if he can do either role, moving him to relief is admitting defeat that he can’t realize his full potential.

    #82629
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    gscottar
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    If he could give us a quality 200 innings then yes he should be a starter but the knock on him is his lack of focus. He seems to do better when he only has to focus hard for one inning, which is perfect for the closer role. His salary would be not be out of line at all compared to other high end relievers. Much cheaper than Chapman, Davis, Melancon, and eventually Kimbrel.

    I think CMart, Hicks, and Miller would be a dynamite way to close out games.

    #82630
    Brian Walton
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    In 2017, Martinez threw 205 innings, including two complete game shutouts and was an NL All-Star. So he can do it. Like I said, if they back him off from starting (unless driven by health reasons), I would consider it a defeat.

    #82643
    jj-cf-stl
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    On this particular roster I’ll take the 40 saves.
    Normally I’d go for the 200 IP, especially for trade value, but I like our SP depth more than our holds and saves relievers.

    #82647
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    NJ315
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    I agree a 100% gscottar

    #82648
    Ratsbuddy
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    I think CMart, Hicks, and Miller would be a dynamite way to close out games.

    gscottar,
    Yes and No. Cmart, after six seasons in the big leagues, still hasn’t shown the ability to throw strikes. And Hicks is almost Ankiel-like at times. They might walk us into 4th place.

    r/Rat

    Edit: I just checked. Martinez and Hicks pitched a combined 197 innings last year and walked a combined 105 batters. No way do I trust either of these guys in the late innings to protect a slim lead.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 3 weeks ago by Ratsbuddy Ratsbuddy.
    #82651
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    mudville
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    I agree, jj. With this roster, CMart with 40 saves would be fantastic. Those last three outs can be devastating or they can be exhilarating.

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