2023 StL Game #66: Sunday, June 11 vs. Reds

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  • #223649
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    1:15 p.m.
    RHP Adam Wainwright (2-1, 5.97) vs. RHP Hunter Greene (1-4, 3.92)
    BSM // KMOX // WIJR
    (and Bally Sports South/Southwest Extra)

    #223984
    Ratsbuddy
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    We really need a good outing from Wainwright today. He needs to give us 6-7 good innings.

    #223990
    Ratsbuddy
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    FYI here,
    Arraez from Miami went 2-4 yesterday in Chicago against the WhiteSox at Comiskey Park. He enters Sunday’s game hitting .402.

    #223992
    1toughdominican
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    He may be scuffling his way out of a slump, Rats. He spiked at .403 and was all the way down to .400 the other day. Just shows he’s capable of making the necessary adjustments…Uh oh! I just noticed that he K’d today…That’s 12 for the season. He may not have it figured out yet. Skippy may need to either platoon him or sit him for a game or two…

    #223995
    blingboy
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    Last year Donovan finished with an OPS of .394, second on the team behind NL MVP Paul Goldschmidt. His BA was third on the team behind Goldy and Arenado. The Cardinals responded to that performance by hooking him up with a tech heavy hitting Guru over the winter to optimize his swing and improve upon his paltry 5 HRs. We all know what happened. Donny went from being a fixture at the top of the lineup, geting on ahead of the power bats (just like baseball has worked for 100 years) to a guy who spent the first third of this season scuffling for a role in the offense and hitting down in the batting order. He has only recently had some success shrugging off the damage and rediscovering his formerly successful approach.

    We can only just imagine what Our Mo and the wonks would think of Arraez and his pitiful 1 HR non-optimized swing. Disgraceful. But they could fix him. They would fix him. After all, if you only strike out 12 times, you aren’t really even trying. In fact, Mo likely would have thought that guy has ‘cash considerations’ written all over him.

    #223997
    Cardinal in France
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    Somewhere along the line I missed the explanation for what the hamburger on the dugout railing is supposed to signify. Could someone please remove this stone from my shoe? Tnx.

    #223998
    ZTR
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    I don’t know about the hamburger.

    Why does every team have some sort of hand signal that a batter makes every time they get a hit?

    They look into the dugout and go through the motions. The first I can recall for the Cardinals was the “eating salsa on a chip” motion that Carpenter started doing – then they all had to do it.

    This year it was the ‘pepper grinder’s but I think that got tossed during the historically horrible start. The current thing seems to be pointing to and grabbing an elbow?

    To me this junk is like high stepping into the end zone after scoring a cosmetic touchdown to pull your team back to only down 49-7 in a football game.

    How about the Cards get their record a few games above .500 first THEN come up with the fancy celebration after you get a single?

    #223999
    Cardinal in France
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    Thanks Z. I more or less figured the elbow slapping was some sort of “Hey, look at me, I got on base” signal, even if we’re eight runs behind. But the hamburger still has me mystified. It’s only because the announcers keep mentioning it and the TV cameras focus on it, without any explanation. Perhaps it’s the modern-day version of “Where’s the beef?” which would seem to fit the circumstances.

    #224000
    blingboy
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    Amen to that ZTR. If they are going to celebrate an accomplishment that doesn’t matter, they should get a pie in the face for failing when it does matter.

    #224004
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Bling, please share your source that the Cardinals directed Donovan to the Mariucci Lab in Louisiana this past offseason. Note that Donovan is from Louisiana and went to school there. Given your inclination to criticize the organization, I would like to understand if it is warranted in this case. Thanks.

    #224005
    blingboy
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    1. Brendan Donovan (L) 1B
    2. Paul Goldschmidt (R) DH
    3. Nolan Gorman (L) 2B
    4. Nolan Arenado (R) 3B
    5. Willson Contreras (R) C
    6. Dylan Carlson (S) RF
    7. Jordan Walker (R) LF
    8. Paul DeJong (R) SS
    9. Tommy Edman (S) CF

    #224006
    blingboy
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    Brian, the main source is Goold’s article about Donovan’s experience at Mariucci Lab last winter. The article does indicate that the trip there was related to an offseason training program put together by the Cardinal’s polo shirt crew aimed at increasing Donovan’s average exit velocity.

    “. . . he has maintained a higher average exit velocity — the “byproduct” he said of a training program put together by the Cardinals’ performance department, hitting coaches, and athletic trainers and that trip to Louisiana.”

    I encourage anyone interested to read the article in its entirety and decide for themself how exactly it went down.

    https://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseball/professional/how-cardinals-brendan-donovan-is-adding-amps-to-his-best-bolt-swing-and-force-to/article_c24aeb7b-23ad-5e80-9201-291936c5f6d5.html

    #224008
    ZTR
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    I was surprised when Mike Maddox quit as the pitching coach.

    Based on the apparent ‘analytics first, last, and always’ approach that the Cardinal brass seems to demand from its coaching staff – I think I can understand why guys like Maddox and Maddon might not want to be a part of it.

    This season has been ‘waiting to happen’ for 3-4 years and now it finally has.

    DeWitt had better take a long, hard look at the culture and philosophy he is forcing on his organization. It might lead to a years long, hard cold winter for the Cardinals.

    #224011
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

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    Bling, thank you for clarifying. Perhaps Donovan isn’t going to be the next Goldy or Arenado.

    #224012
    blingboy
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    I might as well point out another aspect of Goold’s article. He writes for the P-D and is mainstream sports media here in town. By virtue of that, he and his employer are reliant on access when it comes to covering the Cardinals. Some would say there is a certain prid quo pro underlying that whole dynamic.

    I don’t offer an opinion on that, but I will point out that Goold’s article appeared early in spring training right after Donovan came off the line like gangbusters blasting two homers right off the bat. Goold’s article connects that success to the Cardinals performance department.

    Once the season got underway, Donovan hit the ground with a thud, in short order losing his slot atop the order, and even finding himself an irregular in the lineup at all. With the formerly valuable top of the order piece struggling and mired down in the order, what have we heard about the whole thing from Goold, or anyone else in the mainstream media? Crickets, that’s what we’ve heard. What happened to linking Donnie’s performance to the Cardinal’s performance wonks? Funny how that works.

    #224013
    1toughdominican
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    Yeah, the ol’ hamburger routine…The entire team looks like they’ve been fed into a meat grinder, so why not?

    #224014
    1toughdominican
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    Donovan’s plight began way before the winter. It was obvious he was being groomed to be the next Dave Kingman when he turned up in the 5 slot on Oct. 7, 2022…

    #224015
    blingboy
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    I was surprised when Mike Maddox quit as the pitching coach.

    I was even more suprised that Jeff Albert left. He’s about as wonky as they come, degree in Kinesiology, and connected to the Luhnow era in both St. Louis and Houston. My only thought is that he saw analytics gone wild, becoming more of a religeon than a tool, and headed for the exit.

    #224017
    blingboy
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    Yeah TD, that lineup was preposterous in many ways. I’m not a fantasy baseball player, or know anything about simulations, but that is a computer generated optimized lineup if ever there was one. No regard for the human element, the intangibles, guys wake up one morning finding themselves in a different and unfamiliar role, which will result in different and unfamiliar looks at the plate. Completely upset the dynamic of the offense. Baseball lunacy.

    #224018
    gscottar
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    No doubt that Mo’s computer failed on that day of infamy.

    However in 2023 Donovan has started 51 games including today. Here is the order in the lineup for him:

    1st= 23 times
    6th= 11 times
    8th= 9 times
    7th= 5 times
    5th= 2 times
    3rd= 1 time
    2nd= 0 times
    4th= 0 times
    9th= 0 times

    But the fire Marmol narrative must relive the day of infamy.

    #224020
    gscottar
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    Last year Donovan finished with an OPS of .394, second on the team behind NL MVP Paul Goldschmidt.

    I think you meant OBP. His OPS would have been higher than that.

    #224021
    blingboy
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    Its good to see Donovan back in a top of the lineup slot. He is snapping out of it I guess. Whenever Noot returns, we will have to see how he does. He had a .380 OBP when he went on the IL. That would pair well with Donnie atop the lineup. Once that happens, Goldy will probably drop to 3rd, and then the question is whether Gorman sides to 4th, with Arenado 5th, or does NA stay in 4th and Gorman dropping down in the order. It should be noted that Gorman’s SLG has dropped 100 pts since May 20. That would qualify as a plummet. Who knows if he is regressing to 2022 Gorman or if he he will rebound to Babe Ruth Gorman. We will have to wait and see what the computer decides.

    #224022
    blingboy
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    I think you meant OBP. His OPS would have been higher than that.

    Yeah, thanks. I’ve been making a ton of typos the last several months. Trying to get as many as I can edited, but I think it will be the new normal.

    #224026
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    bling said:

    I was even more suprised that Jeff Albert left. He’s about as wonky as they come, degree in Kinesiology, and connected to the Luhnow era in both St. Louis and Houston. My only thought is that he saw analytics gone wild, becoming more of a religeon than a tool, and headed for the exit.

    I do not believe that speculation is anywhere close to the truth. Albert was considered a leading edge coach and that included embracing analytics. He had friction with Shildt and took a lot of heat from fans for the inconsistent offense.

    Not everything that happens in the organization should be blamed on analytics, though it sure seems to be spun that way.

    #224028
    1toughdominican
    Participant

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    Yeah, Bling, it was a bad joke. All season long Pujols had featured a performance that not even his most ardent fans could have imagined, while Donovan emerged to become the picture perfect piece at the top of the order grinding out PA’s to reach base and feed the RBI hungry guys located in the teeth of the order. So, what happens? For the most important two games of the season some whiz-kid gets cute and tosses a monkey wrench into the works. It was a glaring example of why legislators have no choice but to draft and enact criminal negligence laws…Haha!

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