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Bling…Thanks for hanging the line-up on the board. I couldn’t see it posted on the MLB site. Did you get it from rotowire? They used to normally be the earliest.
Card667…Yeah, I’ve read that O’Neill can outsprint anyone on the roster, but like you said, at 23 SB’s and only 3 CS, I’ll take my chances with Eddie when it comes to pilfering bases.
If Winn hits AAA pitching pretty good next year he will surely be up at some point. Meanwhile, it will be Edman starting. If Mo can unload a good bit of DeJong’s contract this winter I think he will, and obtain a SS capable reserve infielder until Winn comes up. If not, PDJ is the backup until Winn, and then he gets offloaded one way or another.
Of interest is what happens when Winn arrives. Surely he will get most of the starts at SS. Where does that leave Edman? Platooning with Gorman? But Donovan has proven to be a productive and key offensive weapon in the #1 or #2 slot, so I do not think that will be shoved aside. But Edman will remain to backstop Winn, at least for the first year. Hmmmm. A can of worms.
1td, the blackout rule in principle irritates me, but I actually have it pretty good. I’m in the Nats/Orioles region. Plus I also get their games on MASN with my TV package, so I don’t have to miss the Cards even when they play them, unless like the other night against the Nats I was out of the house and could not tune in on my phone. MASN doesn’t have a streaming app either.
Haha to coffee and baseball. I used to live for a few years in the tri border region in the Netherlands near where you were vacationing. I sympathize with CIF trying to keep up with the games.
Tommy Edman is the obvious choice and it really isn’t close. In fact, I would choose him over every other SS in MLB. He has the best defensive WAR in MLB. Eddie has better offensive numbers in MLB than Winn does in AA.
If Winn hits AAA pitching pretty good next year he will surely be up at some point. Meanwhile, it will be Edman starting. If Mo can unload a good bit of DeJong’s contract this winter I think he will, and obtain a SS capable reserve infielder until Winn comes up. If not, PDJ is the backup until Winn, and then he gets offloaded one way or another.
Of interest is what happens when Winn arrives. Surely he will get most of the starts at SS. Where does that leave Edman? Platooning with Gorman? But Donovan has proven to be a productive and key offensive weapon in the #1 or #2 slot, so I do not think that will be shoved aside. But Edman will remain to backstop Winn, at least for the first year. Hmmmm. A can of worms.
I think we see some of the excess positional talent traded off sooner than later. There’s a lot to like about some of these guys, but it’s also very possible that Edman, Nootbaar and Donovan are at peak value this year. Heck, Gorman could be too. But another front line starter would go a long way in 2023.
To answer your question, though…Gorman primarily starts against RHP at 2B, Winn at SS, Edman and Donovan play around the infield as fill ins, especially Edman when there’s a lefty on the mound. Donovan and Gorman could be in the DH mix too.
Edman over Winn now and in the foreseeable future. The only way Winn ever starts over Eddie at SS is if they move Eddie to 2B full-time.
Cards667, your link didn’t work for me, but this did.
Do we assume that Winn is going to be the reason we do NOT pursue a top of the line SS in this upcoming off-season? Correa, Swanson, who else?
Great pic of 3 great Brewers from their WS losing ’82 squad, Carter! Harvey Kuenn and his wife Audrey lived on a golf course just west of Phoenix (Sun City or Peoria) and they were next door neighbors with my first wife’s parents. They were indeed very nice people. They had this Shar Pei that my ex wife’s parents frequently kept at their house when the Kuenn’s were out of town. The dog looked and acted mean, but was a total creampuff. Anyway, I vividly recall the day that my ex received the call from her mother that Harvey had just passed away. I believe it was a Sunday. Audrey heard a loud thump while Harvey was in the shower and he never regained consciousness.
WHO GIVES A RATS REAR END ABOUT THOSE STUPID ANALYTICS AND THAT STUPID WAR STUFF!!!!!
Can someone please post their batting averages? That is all I need to see!!!
UPDATE: I looked it up myself!
Correa .278
Swanson .283
Edman .268I’ll take Swanson of the three if I had my pick. We can put Edman at 2ndbase. Donovan becomes the backup infielder. And the strikeout king, Norman Gorman, can DH until somebody with a brain realizes he simply strikes out too much.
r/Esteemed Rat
Edman is having a tremendous year, but he’s not the best SS in baseball. Even by WAR this year, it’s debatable…he leads in bWAR, but is 5th in fWAR. At any rate, he’s been excellent. If one were to assume he’s a 5-6 WAR player going forward, then it would be foolish to assume that Winn can surpass that.
If, like myself, you see defense as aore volatile commodity and look at his K and BB rates and surmise that he’s probably more of a 3-4 win player whose greatest value lies in his ability to play multiple positions well and switch hit decently…then you probably think Winn is the future SS as long as he continues on the same arc he has been.
Fact is, the Cards have a pitching hole compared to other top flight teams. They have the players to fill it via trade, and someone will probably be left out. 6 years of cheap Winn, Gorman, Donovan may well win out over 3 years of increasingly expensive Edman.
Edman War is 6.2
Swanson is 5.0
Correa is 4.3That’s one metric.
By Fangraphs (which I much prefer for position players) it goes:
Bogaerts 6.0
Lindor 5.9
Swanson 5.7
Turner 5.6
Edman 5.2Baseball Prospectus has him far down the list…for whatever reason I can’t sort by position there, but he’s 52nd overall, and behind all of the above plus Carlos Correa, Corey Seager, and Nico Hoerner among primary SS.
Eddie is GameCard’s boy, so tread carefully, gang. But you know, GameCard is right…… there’s not a SS or 2nd baseman presently in the game who I’d take over Eddie. I know it’s a very long way off in the distance, but we could be looking at a future HoFer here with Eddie. As a quick aside, I get a big kick out of Eddie’s frequent facial expressions….. amusing stuff.
EuroDandy…Although we were back before the NLDS with Philly started, we were over in that region for most of Sept. of ’11. I didn’t have a subscription to MLBTV at that time, but I recall taking a deep breath every morning for at least two weeks and clicking onto the MLB site to see the scores as the Redbirds were making the miraculous and largest comeback in history to qualify on the last day of the regular season. It was like a month’s worth of 7th games. I used gameday and the comments of posters on the MLB website forums to keep up with Carp’s shutout of the Astros to edge ATL. on the last day. I was up at 4:00 am in an Amsterdam hotel…It was incredible. Haha!
I use Baseball-Reference. I have never liked Fangraphs and never even consider them.
Could you explain why? I don’t care for Fangraphs’ pitching WAR algorithm, as I think it overvalues Ks…but I think their batter algorithm is pretty good. I think it’s even better now that it’s using statcast data for defensive value.
OPS
Correa .809
Swanson .781
Edman .741That said, SS is the most important defensive position, or tied for most. The offensive numbers are close enough that a significant difference in defense can be the determining factor. And then there is the money. Correa will make $30+M, Swanson is a FA coming off $10M. Edman will be 1st or 2nd yr arb. There would have to be enough of a performance gain to justify spending the payroll money there rather than on a pitcher.
So in conclusion, the idea of signing one of those guys is preposterous.
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