2020 Cardinals Game #3 – Sun 7/26 vs. Bucs

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  • #133746
    Avatarblingboy
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    We should be able to do just fine without any more up the middle offensive contribution that what we get from dejong and wong. If we need more than catch and throw from CF, the corner guys are the problem.

    #133749
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Kolten Wong postgame

    Expected Keller to throw harder than he did based on prior outings. They hit some balls hard. Just one of those days.

    Neck is 90%. Still has tightness here and there. Made sense to sit out of exhibition game.

    Trying to think what to take to keep occupied in hotel. Video games and books.

    Thought he got his hand in at the very edge of the plate against Stallings. Might have had to challenge. Not thinking about the other day. Mistakes happen.

    Huge to win series. They want to win every game, but the season hinges on winning series.

    Kodi Whitley meets with media twice in three days…

    It is hard to put into words what he debut meant. Imagined and dreamed about it. Surreal moment. Will never forget it.

    Weird in empty stadium. Will almost have two debuts, one without fans and another with. Weirdest not to have friends and familty there. All watching on TV. Assuming his phone blew up (with well wishes) but hadn’t had time to check it yet.

    Hopes he will get the first K ball. Will give to folks, but will have in his house one day. Will tell kids ‘Your Dad was good at something.’

    Stuff felt good. Was a little nervous. Changeup was off, body was moving fast. Yadi signaled to him to breathe. Fastball and slider were good. Good to get three quick outs.

    Got used to relieving last year. Have to learn along the way. Have to be ready each night vs. having day and routine as starter. Did not take him as long to adjust because when he came back from being out two years due to TJS, he came back as a reliever.

    Dakota Hudson postgame

    Difference was 2 pitches over the middle of the plate. Had been working before, but they adjusted before he did. Back and forth battle. Slider to Moran, sinker was next pitch. He made adjustment. “I didn’t execute my pitch.”

    Hard not to remember last outing (in NLCS). Feeds fire in off-season.

    Asked about hard-hit contact, he replied, “They’ve got to hit it hard for it to go out.”

    Felt like he was prepared for the heat. Felt pretty good at 60 pitches but got early hook when things snowballed.

    #133750
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Well Dakota will have a healthy ERA to work on. He does to go in spurts. Sometimes it hits and others it is walks. Still not a bad looking team but that old bugaboo, strikeouts, was back today and the pitching of the opponents (except Burdick) didn’t seem that sharp. Now up to the land with no police.

    #133751
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    One of those days. I thought the turning point was the inning DeJong lead off, and struck out on a 3-2 pitch that was never in the strike zone. He had walked the previous time up and a lead off walk might get something going. But striking out on a bad pitch seemed to get Keller the confidence he needed to finish strong.

    That Burdi kid really dominated the 9th, with our 3-4-5 guys going down on strikes.

    Will be a tough series this week in Minneapolis. Need to get at least one of those. Hope Carlos can be vintage on Tuesday.

    #133752
    AvatarCardinals27
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    Seems like I heard that Burdi might be the best closer in the minors.

    #133753
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    Just looking through the schedule again and now that September may not be very easy – 9 home games, 16 road games.
    So maybe August is the time to live on that home cooking: 18 home games and 11 on the road including Field of Dreams.

    Just wondering about rehabs. I guess they do that where the Alternate site is and only play intrasquad games.

    #133754
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Shildt post-game

    Players have understanding of road. Guys have been smart and will continue.

    On three walks in 2nd/3rd. Whenever we get opportunities, we have to take advantage. Loved hustle play by Edman, Wong not taking anything for granted. Thomas was safe, but overslid bag. Love Goldy’s effort. He saw a bobble. They needed to make an almost perfect play and did. Not going to get sideways about it.

    On Hudson. Got 2 quick outs then got ball up, elevated toward middle of the plate, then up again the next inning.

    On Carpenter, who fouled a pitch off the back of his knee. We’ll see. I am sure it will be sore. No report yet. He wanted the at-bat (why he stayed in).

    Liked getting everyone (in the pen) in this series. Whitley was good. Got behind in some counts, but made pitches. Junior was able to control counts better than in camp. Got reps in before the game so can be repeatable. Gomber did nice job as well, limiting damage and giving us chance to win.

    Defense played very well as expected. Yadi pick off and Fowler play in gap prior holding him to a single were among examples cited. The difference in the game was that they could not keep the ball in the park.

    #133755
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
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    A series win is always great, but I’m afraid the Cards biggest issue showed up today…. scoring runs. Against a team like the Pirates, scoring 1 run isn’t acceptable, ever.

    #133757
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    MM3 asked:

    Just wondering about rehabs. I guess they do that where the Alternate site is and only play intrasquad games.

    Precisely what Brad Miller is doing right now.

    #133761
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    CFICT, as I said in this thread before the game, Keller has a very high ceiling. Then after Hudson got homer-itis, we saw their when ahead relievers, who we hadn’t faced this series, instead of their when behind relievers.

    Like most clubs, those roles have a huge difference in talent, and you could see it today. It’s like the difference in pitchers we used in game 1, vs those used in game 3.

    So I don’t think it’s that easy to just say “against a team like the Pirates”, because we just scored 5 and 9. Imo, it was more about who they threw today, than our bats.

    #133764
    Avatarbccran
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    A poster accused me of taking small samples if it fits my narrative. Okay, that’s fair.

    Let’s take much larger samples then. How about the entire 2019 season.

    Bader – 406 PAs/.205/.314/.366/.680
    Fowler – 574 PAs/.238/.346/.409/.754 (as a corner outfielder)
    O’Neill – 151 PAs.262/.311/.411/.723 (injuries)
    Thomas – did well in 44 plate appearances

    That’s our starting 2020 OF, an OF that is starting off the 2020 season with 4 out of 27 (.148 BA).

    Is that better?

    #133770
    Avatarmspaid
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    To expect anything out of Fowler and Bader, one would have to be delusional. They are both useless but O’Neill and Thomas have some promise and after 30-35 games we’ll begin to see if there is anything there. I don’t have much faith in O’Neill, I think he’s another Grichuk but Thomas I’m hoping will be something good maybe even a star.

    #133773
    Avatarbccran
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    At least they have Carlson coming up sometime. O’Neill has some potential if he can stay healthy and cut down on the Ks.
    Bader is a Kozma clone playing outfield. Fowler is way more than halfway thru the back nine. Teeing off on #17. No much incentive. He’s made his money and won a ring.

    #133776
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    #133777
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    At least they have Carlson coming up sometime. O’Neill has some potential if he can stay healthy and cut down on the Ks.
    Bader is a Kozma clone playing outfield. Fowler is way more than halfway thru the back nine. Teeing off on #17. No much incentive. He’s made his money and won a ring.

    O’Neill-Bader/Thomas-Carlson could be a plenty good OF by next year. Who knows what’ll happen with Fowler… pinch hitter? I guess there’s always room for a switch hitter if you have to keep a guy.

    #133778
    CardsRedSox4EverCardsRedSox4Ever
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    Haven’t been a Dexter fan since they signed him in 2017, way too overpriced for his performance. Just as a reminder, he’s pulling in $16.5 million this year, so keep that in mind every at bat and every time he holds up short on a fly to right. That said, he occasionally contributes, but seems to be only when it’s not a critical time in the game, as opposed to when the stakes are high. -1.3 WAR in 2018, 1.5 WAR in 2019, not elite material, barely starter material if that. I’m not giving Dexter much slack early in the season. I also don’t understand Shildt’s infatuation with Bader. The guy can’t hit, time to let a player who can hit take that slot. Bader at the plate is the most frustrating thing to watch on this team right now.

    #133779
    Avatarbccran
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    25 – seriously, what makes you think O’Neill/Bader-Thomas/Carlson can be a good OF next season? I’ll buy Carlson and O’Neill possibly, but Thomas is your only possibility in CF, and he’s still a long shot.
    We shouldn’t have traded Arozarena.

    #133780
    AvatarMinuteman3
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    To expect anything out of Fowler and Bader, one would have to be delusional.

    I would not be surprised to see Bader traded. He is just not a hitter in MLB. So Mo surprise us all and bring up Carlson. Don’t pull another Oscar Taveras on us and wait wait wait. Sitting at Springfield is not the same as playing minor league games and getting experience.

    #133781
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Arozarena wouldn’t have helped this year. He caught COVID and was unable to even report to camp. We will see what he eventually turns into, but at this point, he isn’t any more of a “can’t miss” player than the outfielders the Cardinals kept.

    #133783
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    25 – seriously, what makes you think O’Neill/Bader-Thomas/Carlson can be a good OF next season? I’ll buy Carlson and O’Neill possibly, but Thomas is your only possibility in CF, and he’s still a long shot.
    We shouldn’t have traded Arozarena.

    I feel like we’ve been over this 50 times already…

    O’Neill will hit enough to be an average LF at worst and an All Star at best. Where you think he ends up is up to you, I guess.

    Bader gives you a floor of average CF due to his incredible defense. Perhaps he just won’t hit enough to start but having that guy as your late inning replacement is just fine.

    Thomas is the guy I’m most sceptical of, but he probably will hit better than Bader and has a solid glove to boot.

    Carlson is a star in the making. He will be a little limited by power, perhaps, but could be a 20-20 guy with plus defense in RF and the ability to get on base. That’s a borderline All Star.

    So two potential All Stars, a Gold Glove caliber CF and a guy who will probably be about average in Thomas. That seems like a “plenty good” OF to me.

    #133797
    Avatarmudville
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    It’s still too early to give up on Bader. From what I’ve been reading about him, it sounds like he’s been putting an extreme amount of pressure on himself. Let’s give him a chance to calm down. A couple of trips back and forth to Springfield might help. Regarding outfielders, we’ve still got Dean, Edman, Ravelo, and maybe Sosa who can play in the outfield if needed. It’s not like we’re completely out of options. I think it would be hard to find a GM that would trade Liberatore for Arozarena straight up.

    #133803
    Avatarbccran
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    Mudville and 25 –

    The reason I say they shouldn’t have traded Arozarena has nothing to do with his present health in these bizarre times. It has to do with the Cardinals outfield over the next number of years. As BW said, we have a hula hoop, with no help in the immediate future to back up “prospects” Carlson, Bader, O’Neill, Thomas, and Williams. So let’s look at Arozarena’s entire 2019 season –

    AA – .309/.442/.515/.937/116PAs
    AAA – .358/.435/.593/1.028/283PAs
    MLB – .300/.391/.500/.891/23PAs

    For the season, he had 26 doubles, 16 home runs, 39 walks, and 19 stolen bases.

    No outfielder in our system put up numbers like that. Does that assure success? No, but it’s an outstanding productive season. He’s an igniter, and brings excitement to the table.

    I like Liberatore a bunch, but we’re neck deep in pitching depth and ankle deep in outfield depth.

    #133804
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    bccran wrote:

    I like Liberatore a bunch, but we’re neck deep in pitching depth and ankle deep in outfield depth.

    Liberatore is the only pitcher among The Cardinal Nation’s top 7 prospects. All the others are hitters.

    Liberatore is the only Cardinals pitching prospect ranked nationally.

    The Cardinals traded quantity to get top quality. Any team should do that at any time.

    Passing up Liberatore just to keep one more outfield contender among a group of many would have been a bad idea. It isn’t like Randy is equivalent to Dylan Carlson or something, even though I bet you could dig up some minor league slash stats that could enable you to make that assertion. 😉

    #133805
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Here we go:

    Randy at AA last year
    .309/.442/.515/.937/116PAs

    Dylan at AA last year
    .281/.364/.518/.882/417PAs

    They traded the wrong guy! 😉

    #133806
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Liberatore is the only pitcher among The Cardinal Nation’s top 7 prospects. All the others are hitters.

    Liberatore is the only Cardinals pitching prospect ranked nationally.

    The Cardinals traded quantity to get top quality. Any team should do that at any time.

    Passing up Liberatore just to keep one more outfield contender among a group of many would have been a bad idea. It isn’t like Randy is equivalent to Dylan Carlson or something.

    I really like Arozarena and wish the Cards had been able to keep him. At the same time, that’s probably why the Rays liked him and wanted him in the trade. The upside is definitely there for guys like O’Neill, Thomas and Carlson to make room for a trade, especially when the guy has the talent that Liberatore has.

    Flaherty, Cmart, Hudson, Liberatore, Thompson sounds like a good starting 5 in a couple of years that should be excellent for years to come. That’s not to mention some of the other intriguing guys in the system like Rondon, Oviedo and company. You can never have too much pitching depth. If the OF clearly looks weak, you can always address it via trade or in this off season’s surely depressed FA market.

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