2019 Starting rotation

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This topic contains 52 replies, has 22 voices, and was last updated by bicyclemike bicyclemike 9 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #72085
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    Cardinals27
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    There are certainly a number of candidates for our rotation next year. Some may be trade bait or have unsure roles.

    MIkolas- He had a great year, and barring a trade for a # 1 he is it for now.

    Flaherty- Great rookie season, and he should only get better. Needs to improve durability and command.

    Wacha- Hopefully he returns from injury. Too bad because 2018 was possibly looking to be his best year.

    Gant- He seemed to improve this year to the point that he might be a solid #4 or #5.

    Martinez- HIs question is role. Will he continue to be closer? Or he could be trade bait?

    Reyes- What role will he have early on? Will he start as a reliever to conserve innings? Us fans are just waiting for him to be healthy for a whole year.

    Gomber- He had a solid rookie year. Only lefty starter as of now, barring a trade, or Cabrera or Krucynski moving faster than expected.

    Poncedeleon- I like him as either starter or reliever. Great comeback story from injury in 2017.

    Hudson- What role would he have? Have to think he would be tried as a starter, or he could be the 6th starter. Needs better command.

    Helsley- Likely reliever candidate, a la Hudson 2018. Or in the mix for the 6th starts job.

    Wainright- Will he want to start? If so, he may not be back.

    Weaver- Bad 2018. He needs to develop a reliable breaking ball. But still very young. He is a 6th starter candidate too.

    Ross- He is likely not resigning.

    #72102
    Ratsbuddy
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    Good info C27.

    I might add that I truly believe the success or failure of the 2019 Cardinals depends upon how well Alex Reyes can perform. If he finally stays healthy and lives up to his expectations then I can see 90+ wins as a definite possibility.

    r/Rat

    #72104
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    CariocaCardinal
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    I have Wacha, Gant, and Weaver on the trading block.

    Wacha because I would like to re-sign either Wacha or Mikolos and I would prefer that be Mikilos. Also dont want to be in the position of possibly losing 2/5 of the rotation (Wacha and Mikilos) for 2020.

    Gant is out of options. I also think he has the most trade value.

    Weaver would be selling low but I dont see where he fits.

    #72114
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    forsch31
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    Mikolas and Flaherty are the only for sure starters. If healthy and not traded, Wacha will be a starter. The other 2 most talented possible starters are Martinez and Reyes. When you consider a rotation of Mikolas, Flaherty, Wacha, Martinez and Reyes, that would be a potentially devastating rotation.

    I don’t mind having Gant as a 5th starter. Gomber and Poncedeleon both showed some promise as starters but Gomber seemed to hit a wall at the end of the year. Hudson and Helsley are potential starters but haven’t been in the majors, yet.

    I would trade Martinez for a potential difference maker on offense. I would trade Wacha before the season if you can get close to full value for him. Otherwise, I would wait until around mid-season when he shows he is healthy. I would use Hudson in a trade for a major upgrade at 3B or RF. I would trade Gant, Gomber, Poncedeleon or Helsley in a package for an upgrade somewhere.

    Bottom line, I would trade up to 3 of these pitchers in order to upgrade the team.

    #72116
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    Bw52
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    Alex Reyes- can`t stay healthy.
    Wacha- ditto.
    Cmart -Flaky and had injury issues
    Mikolas-saved the staff this year.
    Flaherty- solid season.
    Weaver- bad season but young enough to rebound.
    Poncedeleon-still untried mostly
    Gomber-a partial season
    Gant-can fill spoit starter/swingman roles.
    Helsley-missed half a season?
    Wainwright-I like Waino but throwing money at a picher who is done IMO.

    Looks to me like Cards have several options but a long way from a stable starting staff.

    #72118
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    PugsleyAddams
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    Not a lot of Martinez chat here. He’s the wild card of the entire staff. One would be silly to depend on Reyes and Wacha for the rotation. Maybe the pen would be physically agreeable to Wacha? Does anybody really think that Reyes will last an entire season in the rotation without visiting the infirmary?
    Weaver lost a ton of trade value with his 2018 performance…or lack thereof. So you have to keep him for another year. Mikolas, Flaherty and 3 of Hudson, Ponce, Gant, Gomber or CMart. Construct a great pen…..that’s the key. Hicks and a few of the above mentioned hurlers is one heck of a nice start to accomplishing it.

    #72136
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    PadsFS
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    I’m not very worried about the rotation as there are so many above-average options that it will work itself out. Our backups (Gant, Ponce, Gomber) stood out well enough that we didn’t miss the projected starters much at all this past year. Ideally, these guys are past the point of pitching in AAA and will be in the bullpen stregthening our primary problem area from the past two-three years.

    #72146
    stlcard25
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    The staff should be Carlos-Miles-Mike-Jack-Alex.

    Austin, Dakota and Luke will be next in line to start should (inevitably, when) someone goes down. Gant and Ponce to the bullpen. Helsley stays at AAA for the year or until he gets the Hudson treatment in the bullpen for September.

    I’d also be good with trading some of the starting pitching talent, even for another pitcher…but only if it’s a serious upgrade (DeGrom, Thor, Bumgarner, etc).

    #72153
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    gscottar
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    I would go with:

    Mikolas
    CMart
    Wacha
    Flaherty
    Gant

    I would have Reyes, Hudson, and Ponce work out of the pen knowing that they could get spot starts or at least be in the rotation by 2020 since Wacha and Mikolas are only under control for 2019.

    Gomber and Weaver should start the season in Memphis but will surely see time in St. Louis throughout the season. Not sure about Waino. I probably wouldn’t re-sign him but the Cards seem determined to do it.

    Of course trades and FA signings could change these scenarios.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by Avatar gscottar.
    • This reply was modified 9 months, 1 week ago by Avatar gscottar.
    #72158
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    mudville
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    I’d like to see CMart stay in the bullpen as closer. He did well with it this past season. Trade surplus pitching, say two of Weaver, Hudson, Helsley, Gomber, Ponce…. and two or three high end position players….Kelly, O’Neill, Arozarena, Thomas….., for deGrom or Syndergaard. The starting rotation would be Mikolas, deGrom/Syndergaard, Flaherty, Reyes, Wacha. And we still have pitching to fill in if Reyes and/or Wacha go down.

    I’d go another year with Jose Martinez in RF if we had to because O’Neill was included in the package. We have other outfielders on the cusp of emerging as viable major league player.

    (I’ll probably get clobbered for being willing to trade O’Neill. There are many who are enthralled by his long ball.)

    #72160
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    gscottar
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    I wouldn’t mind taking a shot at DeGrom but no way would I want Syndergaard. That guy is hurt constantly. He pulls a muscle walking down the sidewalk.

    #72166
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    CariocaCardinal
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    The Mets aren’t trading us DeGrom for anything short of CMart+Flaherty+2-3 top 10 prospects. Anything less and the NY press would eat them alive.

    #72167
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    Bw52
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    Trading ONeill would be beyond stupid IMO.You want tpo trade somebody then trade JMart...lousy defense and 30 yeears old.Smart GMs dont trade 23 year old kids with huge potential and have improved every year as a Pro.He has speed ,he has power and he has improved his K/BB rate every year.So why trade him? Trade the blundering Cuban or the underperforming other Cuban(Arozarena).

    #72169
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    thejager
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    I could see Oneill in a deal to get a controllable young solid pen guy (preferably lefty) even if we still want to move JMart too…or put him in a bigger trade

    Then we could target CarGo on a short or 1yr deal, pair him with Fowler if need be, add some vet leadership and a power bat and good defender, and it still leaves the door open for Thomas, Arozarena, AdGarcia, Williams in the future

    so get a young good lefty reliever or solid backend guy for ONeill
    get CarGo
    go big for Machado

    as for the rotation…I think Waino is coming back…maybe only to warm the seat for Hudson or Reyes

    the rotation i THINK we will have day 1: not what i necessarily want

    CMart
    Mik
    Wacha
    Jack
    Waino

    Pen: Hicks, acquired lefty, Leone, Gomber, Brebbia, Mayers, Gant, Gallegos/Gregerson/acquired righty

    Reyes and Hudson fight for first man up
    Gomber to pen
    Ponce to AAA…perhaps being groomed for longer relief
    Weaver to AAA
    Gant to MLB pen, swing starter Tyson Ross like role

    AAA looks like…Reyes, Hudson, Weaver, Woodford, Ponce

    #72174
    stlcard25
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    The Mets aren’t trading us DeGrom for anything short of CMart+Flaherty+2-3 top 10 prospects. Anything less and the NY press would eat them alive.

    And who cares about the press? That return would be considerably more than what Chris Sale went for. Sale is a lefty, far more durable than DeGrom and had more years of control. If a team makes their personnel decisions solely based on the press, then they’ll quickly be fired. Of course, the last GM got himself fired, so maybe there was something to that.

    #72177
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    Onyxgem
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    you don’t move o’neil for a pen guy period that just would not be a smart move at all

    #72178
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    14NyquisT
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    I think that the FO will wait until late winter to make their move. That’s the timing that will excite the fan base and stimulate ticket sales. Not too many are willing to sit through another season watching a team that will, in the end, miss the play-offs like the last three seasons.

    Enthusiasm is waning so the club needs some exciting news to break up the downward trend. So be patient…. big happenings are on the way.

    #72182
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    thejager
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    I get liking ONeill, but if you are looking hard at Harper or upgrading the outfield in general, then he is better used for getting something else

    Will Smith from the Giants has been pretty impressive for a while and is solid to spectacular lefty who showed he could close games last year too, lefties cant touch him and he was pretty good against righties too

    Tony Watson was pretty impressive as a lefty as well

    Hunter Strickland might look nice in our pen too

    I seem to read everywhere that we have no rotational issues but that our pen is 1b in our needs this offseason, with 1a being middle order help

    at some point you have to go get those guys…trading seems a better way than FA at this point with who is available IMO

    #72185
    jj-cf-stl
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    Mikolas
    C. Martinez
    Wacha
    Flaherty
    Ponce

    #72189
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    858booyah
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    Martinez can only be in a deal for a large or big moto return obviously pieced with someone like O’Niell, Kelly or Adolis but I think they want him as a starter. Could see Hudson in a deal as well. Who knows really! Wacha could be a deadline move if for some reason we should flop a bit.

    Watch out for those thinking Wacha gets dealt. The mob is fickle round these parts.

    Trade Bait

    Martinez
    Wacha
    Weaver
    Gant
    Hudson
    Ponce

    Rotation

    Mikolas
    Martinez
    Wacha
    Flaherty
    Gomber

    Bullpen

    Reyes
    Ponce
    Gant

    Traded

    Weaver 99%

    Hudson 35%

    Gant 35%

    #72191
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    Cardinals27
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    The rotation has many moving pieces, or some who will just get moved for bullpen help, or rotation upgrade.

    #72192
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    Cardinals27
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    I love Waino, but I would like the young kids to start first. Wonder if he would accept a bullpen role?

    #72193
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    LoganAlpha30X7
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    Wonder if Wainwright would work well as a closer…as he’s done it very well before…

    #72194
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    PugsleyAddams
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    With his superb 2018 regular season campaign now in the books, every Cardinal fan naturally loves Miles Mikolas. But, let’s ponder things a moment. He’s 30 years old. Not exactly ready to hang them up just yet, but youth isn’t on his side either. Do any of us really think that he’s going to duplicate 2018 again? And what if he has another rough stretch like he did with Texas back in ’14? Does he go back to Japan…..or a more drastic manuever on his part, sign with San Diego again this next off season? With Waino at retirement’s front door and Carlos…..being Carlos….plus all other candidates being barely old enough to drink, there’s little question that Mikolas is the present ace of the Cardinal starting rotation. But is Miles the prototypical ace that you envision, mowing down batter after batter with the greatest of ease, while leading the Cardinals to the world series? Not trashing Miles here, only exploring the options before he skips town for greener pastures next winter, if he indeed can come close to duplicating ’18. The worst thing Mo can do with him is to do absolutely nothing this winter. Miles either warrants an extra two years added on to his present deal or he has to be traded while his stock is almost thru the roof.

    #72196
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    Bw52
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    For people wanting to trade ONeill you forget that Ozuna is likely gone after next season.The black albatross (Fowler) likely will still be a parasite on the team.Fowler likely will continue too grossly underperform his contract so trading the best young power guy in the system is flat out dumb.Neither Cuban has proven remotely able to do jack in the MLB.Arozarena hasnt had a good complete season in AAA yet and ADoofus Garcia looks unready.Thinking about Harper is a pipe dream.Ditto with Machado.

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