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I wouldn’t really consider this one a MUST win but it would sure be nice to salvage a game out of the series. That four game series at Wrigley right after the All Star Break looms big in my mind. We cant afford to get swept there. Right now, however, i’d take one of those four games and be happy.
Hopefully Flaherty wont hang any sliders tonight like the Redbird hurlers did last night.
r/Rat
That is actually going to be a five game series at Wrigley Rat but hopefully by then we will be more at full strength with JMart and DeJong back and maybe will have solved our bullpen puzzle.
I would love to salvage the game tonight but I can’t say I’m optimistic about it. The only positive I can think of is that our lineup against lefties is a little more potent than against righties as Bader and Gyroko are better than Fowler and Wong.
Today's #STLCards lineup (6/17)
Carpenter 3B
Bader RF
Pham CF
Ozuna LF
Molina C
Gyorko 2B
Voit 1B
Muñoz SS
Flaherty SP— St. Louis Cardinals (@Cardinals) June 17, 2018
As butt ugly dismal as we’ve looked, I think we win this one 6-3 going away. Bader really disappointed me with his 0-5 effort on Friday night….I don’t care if it was vs Lester….the guy strikes me as a gamer and gamers usually come up big in arch rival games. I highly doubt that Bader will come up flat again tonight. Matter of fact, I think a homer and a 2-bagger are highly probable out of our rookie outfielder. Flaherty most definitely will cool off the hot cubbie bats…..6-3 Birds your final.
Cubs take the series in a sweep 6-1. They saw the blood in the water Friday and Saturday and finish off the prey tonight.
Me too but I haven’t been this down on the team in years. They just haven’t done enough to be competitive with the top teams in the league.
So BenFred is reporting Holland will be activated for the Philly series.
Six days ago John “Bowtie” Mozeliak said this: “We’re still not at that point where I think you can find a place for him.”
What has changed during those six days where the FO thinks Holland is ready to come back? He’s still walking a ton and giving up a lot of runs. Of course Mo lied to us again.
Of course Mo lied to us again.
You might be giving him too much credit. Words sometimes just come out amidst all the disarray, as we’re experiencing. Sometimes the fluster factor leads to just saying “stuff” because something has to be said…without the specific intent of lying…more suggestive of incompetence and lacking conviction for a solution than anything else.
Flaherty with another nice inning. Hope we’re getting the good Flaherty for 6+ tonight. We need that to avoid the sweep.
Those who take front office, manager, agent or player comments too literally are just setting themselves up to be perpetually disappointed.
In this particular case, we have no idea what agreement was in place between the Cards and Boras/Holland on the length of the “rehab”. How much was he even really injured? Mo may not be entirely in control.
Just because a figure does not provide every detail of a situation to the public does not mean he is a liar. Often, we don’t know what we don’t know – if you get my point.
Brian, we rehash this it seems every month or so. I will be perpetually disappointed in Mo’s doublespeak.
However, I believe my point still stands. What has Holland done to deserve activation? He’s still giving up a ton a runs. I guess since Holland says “He’s figuring things out,” that’s good enough.
Here’s hoping he really is figuring things out. This bullpen will need him.
Flaherty wobbles a bit in the 3rd. A couple free passes and an error on a pick off help to load the bases. However, after falling behind 2-0 to Bryant and a mound conference, he hangs tough to come back to strike him out.
BHC, what you do not seem to understand is that teams cannot force non-injured players to remain in the minors indefinitely. Holland’s MLB service time dictates that he does not have to be optioned to the minors if he does not want. The team invested a lot of money in Holland and one cannot blame them for not yet releasing him. (Edit: Another possibility is a trade, but they’d have to eat most of the contract and it would not seem to be an immediate option.)
All that means that the Cardinals’ choices with what to do with him are limited. Mo not spelling that out every time he speaks does not make him a liar. Your frustration seems to lead you to over-simplify matters that are not always as simple as you would like them to be.
Like I said, what rehab time did he and the team agree to? We don’t know.
The rules define the maximum rehab, not the minimum. Both Memphis and Springfield are now on the road and MLB players on rehab traditionally do not have to travel. (Springfield’s homestand ended Saturday night and Holland threw on consecutive nights, both being signals to me that his rehab was ending – which it did. I tweeted the below this morning.)
After pitching back to back games on Friday and Saturday, including a scoreless inning last night on a hit, a walk and a strikeout, Greg Holland's rehab at Springfield has ended, as the Double-A Cards head on the road.
— Brian Walton (@B_Walton) June 17, 2018
I understand that for a veteran, rehab time is more of a negotiated term. However, is he getting close to the maximum by the rules?
Brian, don’t belittle me. This has nothing to do about Holland being optioned and I didn’t say that so you’re assuming things. Nor did I say Holland should be released. I don’t know what you’re reading in my comments above to be that misinformed.
Holland was sent on a rehab stint on June 7. Its been 10 days. Teams have a max of 30 days to activate a pitcher after sending them on a rehab assignment. So, no they aren’t that limited and they can force a player to stay for the entire rehab assignment if they choose. If they choose to activate them before the 30 days expires that’s their prerogative but don’t act like I don’t know what I’m talking about.
Per Article XIX-C of the CBA and with the player’s consent, a player on the MLB 10-day or 60-day DL may be assigned to a minor league club for rehabilitation purposes for up to 20 days (for position players) and up to 30 days (for pitchers), and a player on an MLB 7-day DL (acute concussion) may be assigned to a minor league club for rehabilitation purposes up to five days (for position players) and up to eight days (for pitchers).
I think maximum for pitchers and for Holland in this case is 30 days. So no, Holland is not close to the max. Article quoted Matheny as saying Holland thinks he’s figured it out now. That’s after having over a 7 ERA in five rehab appearances at Springfield/Memphis. Sounds about right.
Forsch, for pitchers, it is 30 days. Holland is nowhere near that yet.
But in reality, there is no practical maximum. If both sides agree to extend the time, they just announce the player had a “setback” and take a new rehab.
BHC, why do you believe a team “can force a player to stay for the entire (30 day) rehab assignment if they choose?”
P.S. I am simply trying to explain what the realistic options are. I suspect you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what is possible and what is not.
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