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We accomplished nothing today with these trades. Simply traded average players for average players. I know they speak of making these trades for the future, but the problem is the big wigs have demonstrated for a good number of years now, they can’t judge pitching talent, plain and simple. For the future? How about a novel idea and win now! Mozeliak must be fired as he has no vision of what it takes to be competitive.
Nonsense.Cards got prospects for guys becoming Free agents.
As for judging pitching talent……these prospects were all ranked by several services.Being so shortsighted that a person can`t see that Cards seem to have done okay today by adding a batch of young ranked prospects for 3 guys who could possibly be signed again as Free agents .They got what could be got for rentals. Most seem to agree Mo isn’t going to trade the good stuff for impact pitching, now or this winter. It will boil down to how much is spent on FAs this winter.
It’s going to be an interesting off season for sure.
By default Bill & Mo cannot stand pat with a non-existent pitching staff.
How much money will they spend?
Still have Flaherty, Dejong, and one or two of Edman, Burleson, Yepez, Baker, Nootbar, and Carlson to trade as well.
They are keeping O’Neil, right?
Mo just said figuring out what the outfield will look like is on the to do list. Some of the O’Neill talk may be promotional, positioning him as an every day player.
I would prefer Walker, Carlson, Noot, but they don’t like Carlson for whatever reason.
Brock
We accomplished nothing today with these trades. Simply traded average players for average players. I know they speak of making these trades for the future
If we kept these guys, they (and Flaherty) become free agents. At best you offer Montgomery a QO, so getting these 5, 4 of which are in our top 30 prospects, plus the Flaherty return, is a lot more than a 2nd round draft pick, and is a much more immediate help than said draft pick.
Prospects are just that prospects, and to my point, Mo and his group stink at judging pitching prospects. Position players, they do a great job, pitching NO. You have to have Impact pitching to be a serious contender today. As long as we keep filling the seats, why would they change. We need a whole new vision on how to become serious WS contenders again.
Yep, and don’t forget that Mo could turn right around and flip prospects himself if he needs to.
Stay tuned.
As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
In our top 30 prospects means nothing as we have been proving we are not good judges of pitching talent. Position players yes, pitching NO ! As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
Has a track record that he indeed will. Doesn’t recognize pitching talent standing right in front of him. He has got to go for us to move forward.
Mo knows what he’s doing, and knows what he has to do. These were good moves, lauded by most pundits. 3 potentials pieces to a future rotation and a gifted young infielder. For 3 two month rentals.
Yeah, from what I have read it seems we did pretty good in getting value for guys we were not going to be able to keep. Stratton does not matter much, but we lose Montgomery and Hicks.
And who knows, maybe we sign one of them this off season. My sense is Hicks liked it here, but I think Monty will move on. Maybe he goes back to the Yankees, who knows.
But I like what they got. We will see how they come along over the next few years.
We will have to agree to disagree here. Mo has not shown one ounce of knowing what is takes when it comes to pitchers. Position players yes (and even then, that is questionable at times), pitchers NO! As long as we keep filling the seats, nothing is going to change. The Cardinal Way is no longer working. Nice guys finish last.
I think the reason we have more position player talent than pitching talent is the simple reason that the Cardinals’ philosophy is to take the best player available when their draft slot comes up. By then, all the best pitchers have been taken. Now the challenge is to convert those ‘best players available’ into the pitchers that they couldn’t draft when the actual draft was happening. As far as yesterday’s trade, we now have to do what we do after a draft, and that is ‘wait and see’. That said, I can’t see how they’re going to come up with a competent pitching staff for 2024. One plus is that if they can trade Contreras (17M), and with Waino retired (17M), DeJong traded (6M), Montgomery (10M), Stratton (2.8M), and Hicks (1.8M) already traded, they will have an additional 45M to 50M extra cash laying around the front office. The obvious problem is finding pitching worth spending that money on on. I’d just as soon struggle through another hear like 2023, than throw big money at some middling pitcher that we have to tolerate for the next 3-5 years. We might as well spend 2024 bringing along Hence, Graceffo, and the other promising kids.
In the six drafts between 2015 through 2020, the years that we can expect players to have reached MLB in the recent past, the Cards took a hitter with their first selection five times out of six. The one pitcher is Zack Thompson.
When you focus hard on hitting, that is what you get later on.
P.S. When the Cards pick as late as they do, the best hitters and the best pitchers are both gone. So I don’t buy the best athlete as a reason to go one direction or the other. I suspect they had a prior plan to improve the offense, but swung the pendulum too hard away from pitching.
The last three years it changed, with two top picks pitchers (Hjerpe and McGreevy) in 2022 and 2021 before OF Davis was taken this July. But these guys haven’t had time to arrive in MLB yet.
Nonsense. “Cards got prospects for guys becoming Free agents.
As for judging pitching talent……these prospects were all ranked by several services.Being so shortsighted that a person can`t see that Cards seem to have done okay today by adding a batch of young ranked prospects for 3 guys who could possibly be signed again as Free agents”. I agree Bw52. The Cardinals did well dealing 3 free agents.Yadier Molina was taken in the 4th round in which he was the 113th overall pick. Another player of note taken in that same 4th round was pitcher Cliff Lee who was taken 104th overall. And we all know that Albert Pujols was taken in the 13th round. He was the 402nd overall pick. Many times luck or good fortune is just as good or better than being first in line to purchase a lottery ticket. At any rate, the Cardinals seem to do better with both position players and pitchers who are either drafted in the lower rungs or acquired as cast-offs as can be witnessed by the signing of Chris Carpenter for 300K in the winter of ’03.
As for judging pitching, the last 12 years speak for themselves. Average pitchers’ equal average outcome. Time will tell and I’m just suggesting I think I will be the guy able to say, told you so nothing has changed.
Well that philosophy is not working. If this is indeed Mo’s thought process and he cannot see that it is not working, he needs to go. Need to change philosophy !
Even if the top-rated pitchers are gone by the time they draft, they simply lack the ability to be able to see potential talent in pitchers. Cardinals with pitchers are like the Bears with quarterbacks, with the exception of a few great pitchers we have had in the franchise, we honestly have not really had very many.
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