What is right with the Cardinals and what can be done to keep it going??

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  • #60464
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    We have a lot of “What is wrong?” threads and plenty of negativity to go around but that’s not to say that there isn’t anything to enjoy about this 2018 edition of the Redbirds.

    Let’s get a positive thread going…what are some things that are going right for this team, and what can be done to keep those things going in the right direction?

    I’ll start with two…

    1) Miles Mikolas. This guy might be the best signing of the entire year for any team. He’s rightfully an All Star and has given the team inning after inning with pinpoint control and a variety of pitches to keep any hitter off balance. Hopefully he keeps doing what he’s doing, because it works and the team could really use him having another 6-8 wins on his record by season’s end.

    2) Matt Carpenter. In early May, he was hitting the ball hard and getting nothing for it. Since then, he’s played with his pants on fire, smoking doubles and homers all over (well, mostly to right) and looking like the best version of himself that we’ve seen since early 2016 if not his entire career. Not to mention, his defense has been pretty solid at both 3B and 1B this year, both by the metrics and the eye test. He’s on pace for a 6+ WAR year and it doesn’t look like a fluke given the authority with which he’s hitting and playing the field. Yesterday they showed his balance during the swing and it was a thing of beauty. He made a couple of excellent plays at 1B later in the game. I hope they don’t trade him unless they get something great in return.

    #60482
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Where would they be without Bud Norris? 17 saves in 19 chances. However, he might be their best short-term trade chip.

    #60487
    Avatarforsch31
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    A few positives:

    1) Molina still seems to come up with timely hits when it’s “crunch” time in a game.

    2) DeJong is back. While he isn’t exactly hitting great since his return, his K% is under 20%.

    3) Pham, Fowler and Ozuna are all severely under-performing yet we are still 2 games above .500.

    4) Bud Norris has been a good closer.

    5) Hudson and Poncedeleon have sub 2.50 ERAs at Memphis but still can’t crack the ML rotation. Gomber also has an ERA under 4.00 at Memphis. Gant is also throwing well.

    #60501
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Take a bow.

    #60502
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Where would they be without Bud Norris?

    They’d have paid less fine money to Matheny.

    #60503
    Avatargscottar
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    1. Very solid rotation
    2. Solid back end of pen with Norris and Hicks
    3. Best defensive 2B in NL with Wong
    4. One of best defensive CF in NL in Bader (hopefully he gets the starts)
    5. Yadi
    6. Breath of fresh air with Shildt
    7. Hopefully move out some misfits before the trade deadline

    #60522
    thejagerthejager
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    i like this thread

    Yadi still not declining
    Carp being Carp
    Bader is a nice 4th OF with some upside
    solid coaches (Oquendo, McGee, Shildt, Buda,Maddux…nice core to build off of)
    DeJOng seems to have enough talent to be a complementary player for the team
    Flaherty seems destined for good things
    great fanbase even their expectations can be a bit too high

    I like a lot of our players, but i think it is time to clean house with parts that just dont fit…even if it means losing our small window for success this season. We need to get the things we dont have and not use our farm as a crutch.

    #60523
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Ha, I guess the data really does show that the Cards have the best fans. In your face, #BFIB tag!

    #60525
    AvatarBw52
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    Jager- Yadi not declining? Yadi is not the defensive catcher he used to be.He is still good but not even close to elite.
    Bader a 4th OF? DeJong as complementary player ? Bader should be put in CF and play nearly every day.His defense alone can be a gamesaver.He has good speed and some power so why not? DeJong is a building block to build around IMHO.DeJong can play good solid defense and hit ………What more could you want?

    The future of this team is Dejong,Bader,O`Neill,Flaherty,Weaver,Hicks,Hudson,Munoz etc;.

    #60526
    Avatardavecubbs
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    Hmm… something positive…hmmm

    Ok
    I have hope that next year because we could have 5 very good, very young SPs

    1. Martinez takes 1 more step into becoming a great pitcher. Still little dopey..ah..sry..off track

    2. Reyes finally recovers and stays healthy and we don’t screw around and just groom him as a starter only.

    3. Flaherty

    4. Weaver gets thru this slump and pitches to his potential

    5. Wacha comes back and is strong as ever.

    And we fix the pen..very doable. Have to spend on top guys though.
    Kimbrel is free agent.

    Then pick up 1 very good hitter, but free agent type. This team could contend pretty quickly again.

    I would like Dozier or le Mathieu. Not a wong fan. Can’t have 1 guys batting under .200 let alone 3 like we had for a while. Thank u matt carpenter for helping there. If wong

    #60530
    Avatar858booyah
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    Brian

    Just want to know who were the worst fans in baseball?

    #60535
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Sorry, booyah. Not my survey. Don’t know.

    #60541
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    Good idea. The record is not where we want it to be, but still lots to like about the first half. Molina is still a solid player, albeit not the defensive force he once was. Matt Carpenter has revived his season, and maybe his career, with a terrific stretch that got him on the final all-star player ballot.

    Mikolas has been a real gem. Jose Martinez is a solid MLB hitter who we found on the scrap heap. There are some promising young players (DeJong, Bader, Flaherty, Hicks, Weaver, Munoz, O’Neill).

    And as mentioned, you have to think Ozuna, Pham, Fowler, and Wong will be better over the rest of the season than their results to date.

    #60547
    Avatarforsch31
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    I addressed some strengths but didn’t say anything about how to keep things going.

    The Cardinals’ farm system is at a crossroads. It has some good talent at the higher levels but has an absence of what looks like high end talent in the lower full season teams. We need to acquire some superstar potential in the system. Maybe a trade of Carlos Martinez to acquire it.

    They need to move some pieces (Pham, Fowler, Wong, Gyorko, J. Martinez) to allow some of the high minors talent to have a shot and restock for the future.

    #60563
    AvatarBw52
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    All for moving Pham,Fowler,Gyorko,JMartinez and even Carlos Martinez if the right offer comes along.Pham needs to go elsewhere because Cards have Bader,O`Neill,Mercado, Arozarena,Adolis Garcia,Lane Thomas all much younger and waiting in the wings.Fowler ditto.Gyorko I like but maybe its time to see if a contender needs a 3B with some pop who play adequate defense.JMartinez is a guy who was born to DH.I firmly think that Cards can deal some of the older talent for kids/prospects and still stay on the fringes of contention like they are doing now.Even if you deal for youth/prospects and the team falters at least you have young hungry kids playing for their futures instead of veterans just cashing a check.

    #60576
    thejagerthejager
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    BW back at personally attacking me and my opinions… wonderful…im allowed my opinions…you can have your own, so can i… yours arent better than mine they are just yours… if you can only justify your own opinions by bringing down someone else’s then i’d question your motives and bias

    I dont need to justify my opinions to you at all

    #60578
    bicyclemikebicyclemike
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    I am good with trading guys like Pham, Fowler, either Martinez, etc if we can pull of the right deals – ie get good, young talented players in return. However, I would not deal them now. Most likely these guys will have a surge in the second half and bring their numbers up closer to their career norms. Thus we should stay as we are for the most part.

    The one guy that probably has as much value now as he will have is Jose Martinez. If an AL club is looking for a bat, now is a good time to explore a deal for him.

    #60579
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    I’d respectfully like to ask that this thread be used for Cardinals related positive things, please. There’s no need to get defensive, TJ.

    Yadi has definitely been a positive this year. Maybe he’s not quite 2013 level but he doesn’t need to be to be a good player for this team.

    I’d like to add Jack Flaherty to my positive list. He’s come up and looked really good, and could become another front of rotation starter for this team. You’ve got to think that’s what they can build off going forward.

    #60584
    Avatargscottar
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    I think Munoz had been a big positive too. This guy could have a long term future as super sub or maybe even a starter.

    #60588
    thejagerthejager
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    Frosch, I like your last statement…i pretty much agree

    though i would say we do have some young talent farther down that is pretty exciting, i do worry abit about the young pitching farther down, but the hitting talent i think is down there, and there are plenty of interesting hitting talent throughout the system…. GOrman, the second round? guy too, MOntero, MEndoza, Drake, Carlson, Perez, ORtega, Gonzalez, Billings, MAchado, several others

    I think the team is due for a shake up, which means moving some pieces that may be a little hard to move whether because they arent bad or because they are bad

    We are missing a cornerstone player…we have to find one, i think we have plenty of complementary players that are good foundations for a winning club, we are just missing that one guy that brings it all together in the lineup…they arent cheap, they are rare, and often unavailable

    Votto, Freeman, ARenado, MAchado, Trout, POsey, Betts, JDMart,

    They are stars, and twe are lacking them….

    but we have valuable assets, assets that might helps us get one of those types if we are willing to do what it takes monetarily or trade wise…

    our system has regularly provided capable players to complement stars in the past, our FO has found vets and FAs to complement stars in the past, we have produced and acquired pitchers young and old…but since Pujols we havent had a star…HOlliday played the role ok for a while but it wasnt in his prime…Taveras was our guy, and we lost him…and since then we have been trying to find a star without it hurting us in other areas…. we are past that…there is no cheap star coming any time soon for the lineup…we have the assets to get one, …it will hurt but we can do it…with the cornerstone star in place, everything else will fall into place IMO…but without it, you will constantly be looking for something to hold the team offensively together…which is why the team seems so unfocused IMO…

    generational talent like Pujols are rare…we are fortunate to have had someone like that…but you can acquire influential types like Holliday and Berkman and Beltran eve back to McGwire…to make due while you sort it out or wait for your future star (Oscar)…but that is always a risky proposition…which we have seen for the last 3 years play out….the void left by Pujols and then Taveras has never been filled despite the internal options being proposed to fill it…we can put a good team together but not a team that has that extra edge to make good teams great…

    as i look forward, i see only a few players that are “dump” worthy…maybe only one…the rest all have some value, maybe not as much as we woudl like, but they can bring back something, we have a healthy farm with assets people want…and we have money and motivation and good fans to get us the things we dont have…

    we have all the tools to get what we need, that makes me excited about the future whether it is tomorrow or next year

    #60592
    thejagerthejager
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    stl25…oh i entirely agree, which is why i like this thread… but i dont see why i am being reprimanded when BW was the guy that called ME out

    i get defensive when people attack me personally…my post wasnt an attack on anyone, BW’s was an attack on me from its onset…

    I am not going to engage in this line of discussion anymore, but i dont appreciate being vilified as the problem, as i posted my opinions and then was subjected to personal attack and then defended myself

    which is why i followed my response with another response on topic…to show i am moving on, but i have every right to defend personal attacks when they happen

    as another thread has a lot saying… “i am moving on”

    #60593
    AvatarBw52
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    Jager-was not personally attacking you.i was simply wondering how you come up with such stuff. Disagreeing with you is not attacking you.Quit being a drama queen and understand not every uttereance of yours is the gospel truth.People do disagree with you and no ill will is intended.Calm down.

    #60594
    thejagerthejager
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    GScott..i agree with you on Munoz as well…i thought he might be a flash in the pan ST guy…who i thought was playing a little TOO well early… but with the DEJong injury and him playing more i definitely agree there is more to this guy than it seems… he seems already suited for being a supersub for multiple infield and outfield positions, has a solid bat, a little pop, and seems pretty smart… at worst we are looking at a really nice backup and fill in player…if he an continue to progress maybe even a platoon starter or full time starter depending on the team makeup

    #60598
    AvatarBw52
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    On the whole the Cards have young arms
    CMartinez
    Wacha,Weaver,Flaherty,Gant,,Dakota Hudson,Ryan Helsley,,Alex Reyes,Poncedeleon,
    with Mikolas, for the rotation
    Bullpen-Connor Greene Brebbia,Bowman,Gomber,Hicks,Mayers,Leone,Tuivailala,Webb all under 30.
    Veterans -Cecil,Lyons,Gregerson,

    Not a great bunch but not a bunch of slugs .

    #60601
    Avatarbccran
    Participant

    Interesting that Baseball Reference has Mikolas under control through 2022. Signed for 2018 and 2019. Arbitration eligible in 2020, 2021, AND 2023. I thought he could become a FA after next year.

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