Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › What do we do? / Contreras controversy
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bicyclemike.
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May 8, 2023 at 6:53 pm #219719
Contreras: I didn’t want him. I expressed my concern about poor defense before and after the signing. When constructing a lineup I like, of the many I’ve posted, I have never considered hitting the catcher above 6th. Even when I was suggesting trading for Murphy, i said id hit him 6th. Maybe if it was Piazza or Bench I’d have made an exception. But I basically grew up with LaRussa and Matheny and Molina. I was in 6th grade when LaRussa took over. A catchers defense is most important, any offense is a bonus. They wanted more offense, they sacrificed the defense for the offense. But it doesn’t change the mentality. His defense is first. All the time. Locked in and handle the staff and catch. He’s got an elite arm, but the catching isn’t good. He’s got to prioritize the defense and be better, and Oli needs to hit him 6th and stress He’s not expected to carry an offense, he expected to catch and what offense you provide from the 6 hole, behind the guys I expected to produce the runs, is extra to this team.
May 9, 2023 at 11:38 am #219830A common thread that has arisen in in this early season of losing and the stress seems to weak leadership from the on-field management team.
Losing always brings about a degree of finger pointing and blame, but management has been too insecure to handle it in the clubhouse, and has been doing the “CYA” thing of disrespecting some of the players.
Obviously we do not know the dynamics of the pitcher-catcher relationship, but it would seem that we are a better club with Willson at catcher, and someone like Yepez, Burleson, or Gorman at DH. One of those three can get hot and be a force at some point, whereas there is quite a lot of doubt Knizner can carry that same production on offense. Gorman already has had his moments.
May 9, 2023 at 12:34 pm #219838I would say the weak leadership and CYA also extends to the staff upstairs.
Last year our DH duo was Pujols/Dickerson (mostly Pujols the second half) so naturally I figured this year the duo would be Burleson/Yepez but it just hasn’t worked out that way. The main reason is that we have a logjam in the middle IF so the only way to get Gorman AB’s has been DH. That has temporarily been alleviated with Donovan’s move to LF but when O’Neill comes off the IL and Contreras moves back to C we will be right back where we were. This roster really needs to be thinned out. Too many moving parts and not enough clarity.
May 9, 2023 at 1:23 pm #219843During the offseason I had forseen a Gorman/Yepez platoon at DH contigent on the pitching matchup with Gorman obviously receiving the lion’s share of PA’s. Of course, a 12-24 W/L record tosses quite a few monkey wrenches into gearbox of the proverbial crystal ball…Haha! Maybe they’ll begin to consistently win a few games and things will stabilize to a reasonable degree. I hope so anyway.
May 9, 2023 at 1:33 pm #219845Gorman has been looking real good lately. We should keep in mind that he doesn’t have a lengthy track record. We just don’t know if he will be the type who is hot in spurts and cold and frustrating to watch the rest of the time. I say keep playing him like they have been and see what happens, but don’t toss plan B into the wood chipper just yet.
May 9, 2023 at 1:52 pm #219847He’s still only stepped into a Big League box 435 times, so he’s not even half way to what I’d consider to be enough looks to make more than a decent guess as to what sort of a hitter he’ll be. What’s most encouraging is last season’s 28/103 as opposed to 14/32 BB’s/K’s, so far this season. Obviously, that’s an immense difference that indicates to me that he’s not only seeing it well, but has also made some major adjustments.
May 9, 2023 at 2:33 pm #219848I agree 1td. Gorman looks really pretty good right now, and OliMo must think so too, since he’s pushed Goldy off his perch. ;-/
He seems to be hitting to all fields better now, which is huge.
But, as of now he is a platoon player. He is going to have to face lefties at some point. We have already seen some hot and cold. I think it will depend on how much of each, as with most players. Worst case is a platoon player who has too many lengthy cold streaks. That would not be good, but that is worst case.
May 9, 2023 at 3:23 pm #219849I recall seeing him spray it around a little last season before he hit the proverbial K wall. It then became subsequently hard to tell where he was prone to drive the baseball when he ceased making any contact…Haha!
And yeah, I have no issue with moving him up in the order. I had thought placing him at 5 would be ideal weeks ago, but I’ve made it clear that I don’t at all like him at 3 in the order for 2 reasons. For his sake, I don’t think it’s wise, or fair to him, to be placed in what is thought by many to be the most important slot in the order only because, like you mentioned, he hasn’t even fully demonstrated that he’s an everyday player, much less an elite hitter. And a quick glance at names around the league both presently and in the past will quickly illustrate that elite hitters are almost always the third batter an opposing pitcher will face in the 1st inning of a ballgame. The other reason is that, in my estimation, Paul Goldschmidt is the best hitter to wear a Redbird uniform since Albert Pujols. He can carry this team out of the 3 slot like he demonstrated for about 5 or 6 weeks last year. He’ll definitely rip it up out of the 2 slot also, but I can almost entirely assure anyone that the run production won’t be as impressive as when he’s ripping it from 3.
May 9, 2023 at 4:24 pm #219853
jj-cf-stlParticipantGorman with 2 strikes looks completely different from 22′. He has shown a more controlled contact swing.
Platooning Gorman is a bad call by management during a season that has gone off the rails. Bat him vs both and help his development continue. Make the investment in him.
May 9, 2023 at 4:54 pm #219856We are due to face a lefty on Wednesday, so we will see what happens. If OliMo was smart he’d be standing on the top step around here soaking up knowledge and wisdom. But you never know, maybe he is. Maybe the 2 game winning streak didn’t just happen by magic.
May 9, 2023 at 5:02 pm #219857It may not have happened by magic, but I’d have to say that winning that 1st game against the Cubbies was crucial in the sense that I’m reasonably certain that the current Redbird manager could not have survived a 3 game sweep at Wrigley. That’s my impression anyway.
May 9, 2023 at 8:59 pm #219912With Knizner in the lineup, I much prefer Goldy in the 3 slot, having the 1 and 2 hitters up before him. At 2 he has Knizner and usually Noot.
With Edman hitting at 9, it is not too bad to put Goldy at 2 as once the lineup turns over, he has Edman and Noot, or whoever is leading off.
I believe the numbers are that hitting 2 will give you around 20 more ABs per year than 3, on average. So that is a driver in hitting a guy at 2. But again, if they are using Knizner I would hit Goldy 3 in that lineup. If they are hitting Edman 9 I can see hitting Paul at 2.
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