What do they do with Tommy Edman if ——

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  • #121863
    Boyer14Boyer14
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    all of the regulars return to form?

    If the OF slips up, who moves out there?

    #121864
    AvatarGameCard
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    The players that produce will play.

    #121865
    Avatar1964cards
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    Here are some random thoughts as to how the Cardinals could use Edmund in 2020:

    – Carp will be the starting third baseman on opening day. If Carp slips then Tommy is the third basemen. We saw how this worked out last season.
    – If a corner outfielder slips then Tommy can step in as a sub or interim starter. He subbed last season and did well in limited appearances. He should be counted on if needed. My concern is that I would like a power bat in a corner outfield spot longer-term.
    – Middle infield reserve is another key role the club needs him to fill in 2020. He has shown the ability to play second, but I believe the club needs him to fill-in at short as well. The Front Office (Mo) admitted that DeJong was worn down by the of the season. He also stated that he expected Tommy to get work at short this spring. The team needs to have a plan to get DeJong rest so he can maintain his strength and have a capable back-up in cases of injury.

    I am expecting to see Tommy in the line up on a regular basis – just not at the same position every day. I would guess that the Front Office is thinking Edmund will get 400+ plate appearances this season.

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 3 weeks ago by Avatar1964cards.
    #121871
    Boyer14Boyer14
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    Good stuff, 1964Cards

    #121892
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Edman can get a lot of PT just by filling in for Carp, Dejong, Wong or Fowler as the super sub. I suspect that’s what’s going to happen.

    #121900
    Avatargscottar
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    Ben Zobrist 2.0. He is likely to get 400 ABs.

    #121918
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Why wouldn’t Edman be a starter somewhere? Say in LF? That seems to be the logical place for him even if he hasn’t ever played LF.

    I don’t agree with those that think he is a super-sub.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    #121920
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    Rats – I’d like to see him learn CF if Bader isn’t the answer.

    #121921
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    He’s got a bit of a hole in his swing sometimes that I think is going to get exposed and he’ll have to adjust because the league will.

    I like the super sub idea for him. He may very well regress a little bit at the plate in the 2nd season but I think this role suits him well and it allows him to observe a little more and maybe think his way through stuff. Switch hitter who subs for Carp against lefties and plugs holes due to injury. Wong was relatively healthy last season and had a fairly consistent season. So I wouldn’t totally bank on him in 2020. Plus the questions in the OF.

    #121929
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    Why wouldn’t Edman be a starter somewhere? Say in LF? That seems to be the logical place for him even if he hasn’t ever played LF.

    I don’t agree with those that think he is a super-sub.

    r/Esteemed Rat

    Because I think they are going to give guys like O’Neill, Thomas, and Bader ample opportunities to show what they can do, and we know Fowler and Carp are going to play. Edman will probably bounce around the diamond giving different guys a day off. A lot of it depends on who is hitting and who isn’t.

    #121947
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    Tommy Edman should be in the starting line-up 155 games this year if he doesn’t get hurt and continues to produce even anywhere close to last year.

    #121953
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    GC, I give you credit for being consistent. 😉

    #121955
    AvatarBob Reed
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    History Lesson. Some years ago another switch-hitting Redbird rookie in his age 23/24 season advanced to the majors and out-performed his minor league track record by a substantial margin. This rookie posted a 118 wRC+ and a higher OPS in the majors than he had in AAA the same season. It smelled like a fluke, and it was.

    Over the next 8 seasons he had a mere 95 wRC+, a far cry from 118 and a big disappointment for those expecting a quality MLB batter. BUT here’s the thing. His defense/baserunning were so good, that he still accumulated 24 WAR during those 8 “disappointing” years.

    If you haven’t guessed, that player was Terry Pendleton.

    ————————————–

    I like Tommy Edman a lot, and have ever since I saw him in Peoria a few years back. He was on third base, and took an aggressive leadoff. The next pitch bounced in, and squirted no more than 15 feet away from the catcher — but Edman got such a good lead and such a great jump toward home plate, that he scored standing up. Fast, alert, aggressive. Who wouldn’t like that?

    But much like Pendleton 35 years earlier, Tommy is not a hitter like he showed under the Arch last year.

    Here are his wRC+ numbers at each minor league stop where he was age-appropriate (100 being league average of course).

    2017 in High-A 106
    2018 in Double-A 108
    2019 in Triple-A 108

    With okay play discipline at each stop, but nothing special. And then he had a 123 for the Cardinals. He’s not going to do that again, and probably not coming close. BUT he should be a roughly league average hitter for the foreseeable future, and thanks to his defense & baserunning & versatility, that makes him a big part of the Cardinals’ future. Maybe as a utilityman forever, or maybe as Kolten Wong’s successor in two years, we’ll see.

    Now, let it be said that Pendleton did have a pair of monster seasons for the Braves, many years after that surprising rookie campaign. And I wouldn’t rule out Tommy morphing into a .280, 20 HR guy eventually. Say in his late 20’s. But we shouldn’t hold out hope for that, or expect anything like 2019 again any time soon. It’s not impossible, but it’s highly unlikely.

    #121959
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Bob,
    Who else do we have besides Edman?????

    r/Rat

    #121965
    AvatarBob Reed
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    How do you mean, Rat? Who else, in what way?

    #121968
    RatsbuddyRatsbuddy
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    Bob,
    You don’t think Edman will be all that good this year. But who else do we have? Seems like we have nothing but unproven players in O’Neil, Thomas, and Carlson. At least Edman made a big splash last year and deserves a chance.

    r/Rat

    #121970
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    I like the way Edman goes about his business – professional
    and business like. Plus he seems to add energy to the lineup.

    #121973
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Here are his wRC+ numbers at each minor league stop where he was age-appropriate (100 being league average of course).

    2017 in High-A 106
    2018 in Double-A 108
    2019 in Triple-A 108

    Bob, what are your thoughts on wRC+ for minor leaguers since it’s only adjusted for league and not park? Personally I’ve been skimming stats and figure that AutoZone Park is about a 7-10% handicap for the Memphis group, Springfield is roughly neutral and both A ball affiliates are similar to the Memphis figures. Any thoughts?

    That would make Edman more of a 115-118 “true” wRC+ guy in A+ and AAA, which means he could be a 105-110 wRC+ guy in St Louis. As you know, with his good glove and base running skills, that’s a 3ish win or better player, which I think we’d all be happy with.

    #121978
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    The Cardinals did not know what they had in Tommy Edman. What he did surprised them and so did his speed. Now if he regresses in 2020 in won’t be in the line-up every day but if he doesn’t he will be.

    #121983
    Avatar1982 willie
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    I think edman will get plenty of chances. he should. spring training is gonna sort some of this stuff out. I would prefer him at third with carpenter on the bench but I don’t think that is gonna happen. while I think he did well in the outfield, we have guys that need to get regular at bats in those positions. I too like bob, wonder if he is gonna maintain what he did or even come close. im hopeful but we will see.

    #121988
    AvatarBob Reed
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    “Bob, what are your thoughts on wRC+ for minor leaguers since it’s only adjusted for league and not park? Personally I’ve been skimming stats and figure that AutoZone Park is about a 7-10% handicap for the Memphis group, Springfield is roughly neutral and both A ball affiliates are similar to the Memphis figures. Any thoughts?

    “That would make Edman more of a 115-118 ‘true’ wRC+ guy in A+ and AAA, which means he could be a 105-110 wRC+ guy in St Louis. As you know, with his good glove and base running skills, that’s a 3ish win or better player, which I think we’d all be happy with.”

    Fair points, card25. (And as for total value, I do believe that Tommy will be worth 2.5 to 3 WAR per 600 plate appearances going forward, as long as he doesn’t behave self-destructively over-aggressive on the basepaths in an attempt to compensate for hitting disappointments, a la the 2019 version of Harry Bader.) As for the rest of it, I recall that Edman was actually better at home than on the road in 2018, but held back some by Memphis in 2019.

    So yes, I could be talked into a slightly higher upside for Tommy’s bat. (I definitely don’t think he’ll ever have a dismal OPS+ in the 60’s, as Terry Pendleton did three times for the Cards.) But I can’t help thinking that Edman’s 2019 power breakthrough was in large part fueled by the new Superball baseballs in both AAA and the majors — he exploded from 34 extra base knocks in 518 AB’s in 2018, to 58 in 523 AB’s.

    It’s sure easy to fall in love with Edman. There’s speed, blossoming pop, the roster flexibility that a multi-position switch-hitter provides. (Flexibility that’s forfeited however if he’s made a regular one-position starter.) And there are two relatively substantive reasons to think the 2019 power surge is in fact real, or mostly so. (1)Edman is finally overcoming the punchless “Stanford Swing” indoctrination; and (2)power is the last tool to develop.

    —————————–

    So again, it’s very seductive. But I still don’t buy it.
    Stephen Piscotty was also a Stanford guy, and had the same surprising MLB debut with the bat. I convinced myself then that maybe Piscotty was the very, very, very rare guy who would hit better in the majors than the minors, despite his never being young for his minor league level, and not possessing superior plate discipline.

    Like Roger Daltrey, I will not be fooled again.

    #121989
    AvatarNigel T
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    It’s interesting Bob used the Pendleton comp. I hadn’t thought of that. I am consumed with a Tommy Here vibe. Tommy hit out of the three hole in his greatest season, and Dan always reminds us of Edmunds college days.
    I am afraid Tommy E is more Mike Ramsey-ish than a four war starter, but he sure looked Roberto Alomary last season.

    #121990
    AvatarNigel T
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    It’s interesting Bob used the Pendleton comp. I hadn’t thought of that. I am consumed with a Tommy Herr vibe. Tommy hit out of the three hole in his greatest season, and Dan always reminds us of Edmunds college days.
    I am afraid Tommy E is more Mike Ramsey-ish than a four war starter, but he sure looked Roberto Alomary last season.

    #122001
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    I would think playing in the PCL with the juiced ball would enhance your stats. Perhaps playing at home, Memphis might be a more favorable to pitchers, but that is only half their games. Peoria is pretty cold for most of April and early May, and that can’t be conducive to those from warmer climates to get used to. Palm Beach is a canyon of a pitchers park, and I am looking forward to Gorman moving past there to see what he can do in Springfield

    #122027
    colhuskercolhusker
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    I will eat crow if he proves me wrong, but given Carpenters hitting the last couple years, since he started worrying about launch angle, I suspect we will need a bat at some point this year. I will also say I really hope I eat crow on this, but he just hasn’t been the old Carp the last couple years.

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