What do they do with Tommy Edman if ——

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  • #122031
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Edman is going to have to hit in ’20. The better he hits the more ABs he gets. Some here tend to feel that there will be regression in Edman’s game. His value is that he switch hits and plays many positions so any added offensive numbers just adds to that value. I would love to see him starting in RF.

    #122032
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    Switch hitting is not an asset unless you can hit lefties and righties. Edman did well against both last year, but he was definitely better against lefties. And being better against lefties is an asset on this team, since we have so many guys who look like a drunk man trying to swat flies against lefties.

    If Edman doesn’t continue to hit righties well, he will essentially become a platoon player against lefty pitchers.

    #122035
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    At the end of 2019 Tommy Edman was the most productive position player the Cardinals had. Of course, he has to keep producing but so does every other player. He is a switch-hitting, fast multi-positional player. Why would anybody not have a player like this in the lineup every day? The fact that anyone thinks Edman should not be an everyday player is just nuts.

    #122036
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    GC said:

    At the end of 2019 Tommy Edman was the most productive position player the Cardinals had.

    Edman batted .182 with a .250 OBP in the post-season, including .000/.067 against the Nats as the Cards were eliminated.

    The fact that anyone thinks Edman should not be an everyday player is just nuts.

    You mean, like his own manager?

    #122042
    stlcard25stlcard25
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    Brian, stop bringing facts into the argument!! 😉

    I like Edman and hope he plays so well that GC looks like a pessimist on him, but there are plenty of reasons that the team should have caution when penciling him in long term. I think they’ve got a versatile team now that can withstand some regression from him, and we’ve outlined how that could work out. I guess we will see in the next few months how the lineup looks.

    #122043
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Edman is apparently is not included on someone’s “pet” list.

    #122045
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    I like Edman a lot, but I am also practical and pay attention to what I see and hear. He will play a lot, but not every day and not at one position (unless a starter is hurt to open the season). I don’t get why some are in denial about that.

    TCN (including me) had Edman in the Cards top 20 prospects last year at this time – when a number of national raters left him out of their top 30s entirely.

    #122053
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    He is a switch-hitting, fast multi-positional player. Why would anybody not have a player like this in the lineup every day? The fact that anyone thinks Edman should not be an everyday player is just nuts.

    One of our fans’ opinion.

    when a number of national raters left him out of their top 30s entirely.

    Yeah, I wonder why the organization promoted him up to the big-team. Usually you go along with the FO’s decisions.

    Those national raters are so rarely wrong.

    #122055
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    You miss my point, Ny. You questioned my objectivity about Edman so I pointed out with facts why you are wrong.

    #122056
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Ny said:

    Usually you go along with the FO’s decisions.

    Many times I can understand what they are doing, and explain it, which may be different from what I might do personally. I don’t push my opinions a lot, because they are no better or worse than yours or anyone else’s. The internet is full of bloggers with opinions and the way to get attention is to attack and criticize, with reason and logic completely optional. It is how our online culture has evolved.

    Instead, I interpret what I think the Cardinals are doing. Some see that as homerism. Others understand what good reporting and analysis is about.

    I will say that much more often than not, the people making the decisions know more than message board posters. That doesn’t make them right all the time, however. Many decisions take time to play out, but few seem to have patience for that.

    #122058
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Of course they know more. BUT as you say they are not infallible. Au contraire. Don’t make me point out a flaming example. They seem to have some extra patience with some. wink wink.

    #122059
    Avatar14NyquisT
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    Good chat.

    #122060
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Here is an example about Edman.

    A year ago, he came to his first camp with less than 20 games of experience at Triple-A. He played very well in spring, but did not make the team. Other than experience, another primary reason was he was blocked by veterans.

    Then Gyorko got hurt late in camp and the blogger crowd went totally bonkers because the Cards did not drop someone else from the 40-man and put Drew Robinson (who was already on the 40-man) on the team instead of Edman.

    Because Gyorko was a reserve and the starters were healthy, Robinson only got a few stray at-bats and before very long, Gyorko was back and Robinson would never be seen again.

    In the meantime, Edman played every day for two months at Memphis and logged 200 valuable Triple-A plate appearances instead of sitting on the StL bench or riding the I-55 Shuttle.

    After he was called up in June and did well for St. Louis, the second-guessers were back, saying “See, he should have been with StL all along.” They skipped over the fact he wouldn’t have played, anyway, and may not have been in a position to contribute as quickly if he had been sitting on his behind for the most of the prior two months.

    And I get attacked as blindly supporting the FO and not having Edman on my supposed BS “pet list” because I understood exactly why it was better for both the Cardinals and Edman personally for him to NOT have been on the team last April.

    Bringing this example home to the current situation, the 2020 Cardinals will be a better team if the veterans step up and play well. They will be a better team if a real outfielder grabs the job in left. And they will be a better team if Edman is not needed to start, but is used to back up multiple positions. It may or may not end up that way, but it appears that is the plan to start the year.

    #122068
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    It’s funny how so many posters only remember being right. I remember getting heckled in the Astros cheating thread for having the audacity to suggest that amphetamines were widely used in baseball, both before and after the phone “rule against illegal drugs.” I was called on it, and practically insulted for suggesting it. Then after I post the proof that was asked of me – crickets. Not a single person responded to that. One to the next thing. I guess no one was wrong about that.

    And that, Brian, is why your posters all seem to have a 1.000 batting average.

    #122073
    jj-cf-stljj-cf-stl
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    Since Edman debuted he started 75% of the teams remaining regular season games. Only four players still in the org had a higher GS% on the 2019 season (DeJong, Goldy, Fowler and Wong). I haven’t understood this Edman playing time conversation all winter, and still don’t, especially since we didn’t change managers or add a significant position player.

    #122075
    Boyer14Boyer14
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    I look forward to Edman being the real deal, and how do they get him a lot of playing time.

    #122076
    Euro DandyEuro Dandy
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    If you’re human, you make faulty arguments. It’s what you do.

    At least we’re not politicians (guessing).

    jj, I’m guessing the point of contention is the assertion that Edman won’t be a regular starter if there are no injuries and everybody else performs well. In other words, he’s holding the short straw even though he was better than most last year. Mo, Girsch and Shildt have said as much. Experience and investment is part of the equation. However, we know everything (performance and injuries) won’t go perfectly, so Edman will get his reps.

    #122078
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
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    At least we’re not politicians (guessing).

    This, especially the “guessing” part really made me laugh. I agree with the rest, though. Let’s hope that Schildt has a major problem with having to sit guys who are performing because we have more good players than positions.

    #122086
    Avatarmspaid
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    What to do with Tommy? A team that needs offense. How about start him everyday.

    #122091
    Avatargscottar
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    What some have a difficult time grasping is that a player can start five days a week but not be listed as a starter on the depth chart because they play multiple positions. It really isn’t a difficult concept to understand, at least you wouldn’t think.

    #122122
    colhuskercolhusker
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    Agree with Brian in the long run, Tommy getting at bats in the minors was far more of a benefit than coming up and sitting until it was clear the older guys were not going to produce. Guessing there was the thought we paid the older guys on the bench a bunch of money and we will give them a chance to prove that signing them was worth it. Especially all those top notch free agents they sign every year and claim they have made major moves. Here is hoping his manager is quick to start rotating if the veterans struggle again this year.

    His batting average and production in the playoffs was disappointing, however, this team was all or nothing for most of the year and the NATS rotation was good enough to get a lot of nothing from the offense.

    #122130
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    If Edman produces as he did in 2019 he is an everyday starter…period. He makes the Cardinals go and without him, in the line-up, the Cardinals don’t win the Central. He batted .304 and his OPS was .850…those were best on the team(over 100 AB’s). The numbers speak for themselves. I can’t believe this is even debatable.

    #122137
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    This mention of Tommy Edman’s role in 2020 came from the Anne Rogers on the Cardinals official website.
    Edman arrived at camp Tuesday morning holding four different gloves and a cup of coffee in his hand. He’ll probably need all of them for what the Cardinals have planned for him this year.

    The versatile defender is planning on getting playing time at six positions — second base, shortstop, third base and all three outfield spots — this spring, and the Cardinals want Edman be a true utility player when the season opens, moving around the field and getting his bat in the lineup every day.

    #122141
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
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    Direct quote from Mike Shildt when asked about Edman’s role:

    “…It is hard for me to get definitive as to what that will look like. Clearly he has earned every right to get the opportunity to compete and play. He will be moved in a couple of different spots in spring training, including in the outfield to continue to create opportunities for him.”

    #122144
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    the Quote is the Cardinals want Edman to be a true utility player when the season opens, moving around the field and getting his bat in the lineup every day. This is essentially what Shildt also said and I believe Shildt will play the productive players which is what Edmans is coming into the season.

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