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The problems seem like things that should have been noted after two or three bad starts. But Waino admitted he was not as diligent with the video as he could be. Maddux probably mostly leaves him alone since he is a vet. Who knows.
Waino will likely want to come back and have a better year to ride off in the sunset. He’s one guy I think can be a lot better next year, so I am good with him giving it one last round.
I am of a different opinion than Nate. The fact that Waino has a legacy as a Cardinal does weigh in to a decision to bring him back or not if I am the decision maker. He has earned a right to give it another turn. Maybe it won’t be much better, but then he could be like Lou Brock and Albert Pujols – two guys who were much better their final season than the one before.
he could be like Lou Brock and Albert Pujols – two guys who were much better their final season than the one before.
He could be even more like Pujols and sign for $2.5M
How many guys actually retire on a high note vs. fade away due to poor results? Add to that Wainwright’s very advanced age for a pitcher and I am not as sure about his 2023 as some seem to be.
Stepping back, I am not sure I would call his 2022 a down year. Granted, he didn’t finish well, but overall, he won 11 games, had a 3.71 ERA and threw 191 innings. Does anyone really think he will better that next year at age 41/42?
Father time remains undefeated – even for Cardinals icons chasing personal milestones.
P.S. At least when Pujols was signed, we had good data that he could still hit lefties. He was terrible vs. righties in the first half but then something unexplainable happened. I am not ready to hope for that kind of thing from Waino.
Having said that, I wouldn’t be against a contract with heavy incentives – BUT my fear is that the Cardinals will then grant him a rotation spot rather than sign/resign another pitcher with more upside.
Sentimentality worked this year with Albert, but his role was specialized and he earned more playing time. As harsh as it sounds, the numbers suggest Molina played a year too long. 12 months from now, I hope we won’t be saying the same about Waino.
Totally agree. It was true about Molina though in the end it didn’t really hurt us. Im glad he came back for a send off though. Waino had a chance for that, I’d prefer him to retire at this point. Time to turn the page
BW…I can think of quite a few position players that have retired on high note, but I can’t come up with any pitchers. I’d have to say that’s due to it being difficult to labor on a Big League mound on the wrong end of 30, much less at 40 or older.
I’d like to see him work out of the pen next year. He could put everything he’s got physically into one inning or less. Combined with his knowledge of how to pitch it could be effective.
Koufax went out on top. Cy Young award.
Curt Schilling.
Seaver and Clemens were still.above average. That is Just off the top of my head.
CariocaCard…Koufax retired at 30 years of age. Seaver’s last season produced a 7-13 W/L record with an ERA north of 4.00 in a little over 170 IP at 41 years of age. Heck, Wainwright had a much better season in ’22 than that. Clemens last season with the Yankees was even worse, Carioca.
Some details.
Koufax didn’t continue because he was hurt so he doesn’t count.
Schilling went 9-8, 3.87 his last season. Threw 151 innings at age 40.
Seaver finished 7-13, 4.03, 176 innings. Age 41.
Clemens was 6-6, 4.18, 99 IP, age 44. He was on the half season plan by then.Conclusion: A .500-ish record and an ERA around 4.00 over 150-175 innings. Those numbers were down from their prior year and worse than Waino’s this year. So I could conclude he may deliver less in 2023 than in 2022.
I basically looked at ERA+. 20% above average I considered still elite. As I said, Clemens and Seaver were above average.
The fact that Koufax retired at 30 with an arm injury is irrelevant. I am sure he could have tries tô come back but he close to go out on top which was the criteria at hand.
Not sure why John Tudor got cut from my post. 159 ERA+ his last year.
CariocaCard…Nice observation on Tudor. He never would have entered my mind in regards to this discussion.
I would say there is a little bit of recency bias with both Waino and Goldy. Both had a bad September and October but otherwise were solid to good. Goldy still has a decent shot at MVP and Waino ended up at 191 innings with a 3.71 ERA. That is solid. Even if he regresses some next year he is still a solid number 4 or 5 starter who can eat some innings. I would be fine giving him a one year $10M deal to finish out his career.
Adam Wainwright will be returning to #stlcards for the 2023 season, Post-Dispatch has been told. Look for news story shortly @stltoday.
— Derrick Goold (@dgoold) October 26, 2022
Waino will be a bargain. He’ll also bring in ticket money for his final season.
That said, if the rotation is Waino-Flaherty-Mikolas-Monty-Matz, they probably win the Central and lose in the first round again.
Some players bring value as far as leadership, managerial support, mentoring of younger players, etc. Their very presence makes the team better. Waino might be one of those.
Adam Wainwright was very good in 2022…3.71 ERA in almost 200 innings & a 1.8 WAR. Many pitchers wish they had those numbers. Some of the negative comments about Waino are ridiculous.
So GC gets to decide which comments are ridiculous. News to me. I rather Waino stay home with the family. He will be 42 in August. I rather give someone else a shot. Sep/Oct 7.22 era I forgot he was hurt. My opinion is a valid as yours.
Waino’s numbers in 2022 were good and the numbers show he can still pitch at a high level. At some point, he will need to retire obviously. He isn’t going to embarrass himself.
Derrick Goold is reporting…
Adam Wainwright will be returning to #stlcards for the 2023 season, Post-Dispatch has been told. Look for news story shortly
@stltoday
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