Wacha removed from rotation – replacement is Cabrera

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This topic contains 52 replies, has 16 voices, and was last updated by Brian Walton Brian Walton 5 months, 1 week ago.

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  • #91857
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    858booyah
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    We could use a pleasant surprise. We have had enough of the other kind.

    Maybe he’ll replace that junk baller walk em all Webb.

    #91858
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Panic just seemed like a nicer word than stupid, though I agree it’s probably not accurate. It was a trade to make a trade. I’m not sure how it benefits (or benefited) the Cardinals other than to open up playing time for lesser players. I hardly see that as a benefit. Trading Pham is something that was a result of the terrible Fowler signing. These were both deals that were criticized at the time (just not by the Mo enablers), and many seem to forget that.

    No has made some good deals, there is no doubt about that. But they do not even come close to making up for his bad deals and his inability to put together something resembling a balanced, complete team.

    To pretend that the overall trajectory of this team has been positive on Mo’s watch is just self-delusion by egotistical people who have dug in and decided Mo is the hill they’re gonna die on.

    I give Mo’s leadership team about 2 years before it bottoms out and we have a team that doesn’t even look like a contender from a distance if you squint really hard – which is where we are now.

    #91860
    Brian Walton
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    We will have to agree to disagree on Pham’s trade. I don’t believe it had anything to do with Fowler and have seen nothing legitimate that connects the two players. In my assessment, the trade had everything to do with Pham himself.

    To his credit, after the trade, he started to hit much better again after four rough months with the Cardinals last season, during which he was below MLB average (99 wRC+). I wish him well, but don’t really miss him.

    #91865
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    Minuteman3
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    <To his credit, after the trade, he started to hit much better again after four rough months with the Cardinals last season, during which he was below MLB average (99 wRC+). I wish him well, but don’t really miss him.>

    Amen Brian. Pham was a supporter of Team Tommy and none other unless it satisfied his leanings. His public utterances to the media showed a total disrespect of the many many chances the Cardinals had given him. Nice to see him do well but I had no thought of him ever doing that here. He has already unloaded on the nonexistent Rays fan base as if they needed his utterances.

    #91879
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    gscottar
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    I don’t miss Pham either. Stl25 may scold me for saying this but Tommy was a head case.

    #91880
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    gscottar
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    Making his MLB debut in Philly against one of the NL’s best teams is a tall order. It is a risk, but I give them credit for trying something different. Wacha clearly wasn’t getting it done.

    I agree that Wacha needed to be replaced. I just thought there were safer options in Memphis to go with.

    #91882
    Brian Walton
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    Is playing it safe the best way to go?

    #91884
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    gscottar
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    I don’t know. Ask me Wednesday night. :o)

    I just thought Ponce or Woodford were better options. I feel like they were more likely to give us 5 or 6 innings.

    #91887
    Brian Walton
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    Don’t get me wrong. Cabrera may fall flat, but neither of these guys’ recent work screamed “promotion”.

    Ponce de Leon averaged 4 2/3 innings over his most recent four starts. 15 hits and 15 walks in 18 2/3 innings.

    Woodford has allowed 10 runs in his last 10 innings – on 10 hits and 10 walks. How safe is that?

    #91907
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    atripleshyofthecycle
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    Some great examples for Mo getting excused. Poor guy makes so many great decisions that, through no fault of his, turn out poorly for his team. Someone give that man an extension!

    #91916
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    TheLonelyBull
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    The scolding of Pham continues on. He got “many” chances, yet still has outperformed those put in his place. Yet he at a cheap salary is gone, and this is a good thing according to the morally righteous, gaslighters among us.

    #91925
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    14NyquisT
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    Naturally, the FO was looking to get the best value for Pham whose reputation at the time made that a bit more difficult. Back then both Williams and Cabrera offered some solid potential. Although Williams has been less than expected, Cabrera still has a large upside.

    The FO may not be trying to compare what they got for Pham at this point but some fans will be. No matter how he looks he his first start, the organization is clearly taking a “risk” because a poor showing will only increase the perception that we was robbed. This coming at a time when the disappointments are mounting for the big club. If Cabrera is successful it might add a ray of hope that things are getting better.

    Having Cabrera get this start may not indicate that he has passed over the other young arms looking for a shot. Cabrera is good but this is still a gamble at a semi-critical time. It is surely not a play-it-safe move and nearly all of the Card followers are surprised. This will be more than “just one game”.

    #91926
    stlcard25
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    I don’t miss Pham either. Stl25 may scold me for saying this but Tommy was a head case.

    Well, Tommy probably qualifies. Ha ha. The chip on his shoulder could fill the Arch, and although he has had flashes of brilliance, he’s probably better off elsewhere. In hindsight, we could have gotten a much better return had the trade happened in the off-season prior to 2018, but such is life. I don’t particularly miss him either, although he kept things interesting and it would be something to hear him talk about the team in this funk they are in right now.

    #91927
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    14NyquisT
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    My main concern regarding Wacha is the question of what plans the organization have for him. Is he done as a starter for this team? If so, I’m thinking so much potential and so big the disappointment. Much earlier on he was the guy the Cards had been waiting for. And for a time he was just that.

    #91929
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    Houstonlarry24
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    IMO my fellow Texan Wacha is done in St. Louis. His inability to stay healthy I am sure as a factor but hate to see his demise as at one point thought he could be a real productive part of the rotation.

    #92058
    Brian Walton
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    #92085
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
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    The guy who does pitching analysis for The Athletic illustrates a positive change in Cabrera’s mechanics.

    #92115
    Brian Walton
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    #92240
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    gscottar
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    I wonder what the future holds for Wacha. While a DFA is possible it wouldn’t surprise me if they find some kind of ailment and put him on the IL. They can probably hide him there for quite some time like they are with Cecil.

    #92247
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    Cardinals27
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    How did Cabrera look? The numbers are decent, but need improving. As far as Wacha goes, does he have any options left? If no options, a DFA and outright, or trade is possible. Otherwise, mop up duty is all he can trusted to do at this point.

    #92260
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    thejager
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    I thought Cabrera was fine

    Id be fine with him getting another shot, though i still think his future is in the pen, and if Gomber is ready and healthy id rather go with him for a turn and maybe get Cabrera back into the pen and move on from Webb

    Cabrera could be a great complement to Miller and maybe even fill a CMart size role (along with HElsley) allowing CMart to slip back into the rotation…as long as we dont expect CMart to be an Ace he coudl still be very impactful for the rotation

    If we can get Reyes in the rotation in a week or so…then CMart in a month or 2…that could start lining up for a pretty potent rotation for a stretch run….id still like a lefty in the rotation but i think gOmber could do it fine

    Jack, Mik, Gomber/Hudson, Cmart, Reyes…looks fine to me
    Hicks, Helsely, Genesis, Miller, Gant, BRebbia, Gallegos…is pretty nice…even Waino or Hudson in there could be an interesting weapon

    Nevertheless, I was very encouraged by Genesis’ perfromance

    #92267
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    gscottar
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    My expectations for Cabrera were low but I admit he was better than I thought. He got no help from the defense and Citizens Bank is an extreme hitters park. He has electric stuff. If he can harness it he could be a weapon.

    Do I still think others at Memphis deserved the shot? Yes, but the way our season is going they will be probably get it at some point.

    #92270
    BlackHillsCard
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    I agree with your take on Cabrera, Jager. However, when I said Cabrera was basically a bullpen guy last year there was 1-2 people on the forum who essentially said I didn’t know what I was talking about.

    #92311
    Brian Walton
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    Cabrera showed three pitches last night. Scouts and professional evaluators remain divided as to whether he is a future starter or reliever. It is too early to know if he will continue to develop or stall out.

    I do know for a fact that he is just 22 years old (and will be this entire season) and has less than 50 career innings above Double-A. Further, he is a left-hander and historically, they need a bit more development time – plus he is still relatively new to the Cardinals.

    Having given up on him as a starter before the season without ever having seen him pitch was premature. It still is now.

    #92556
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    Cardinals27
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    I saw replays of Cabrera striking out the side in his debut. 97-99 on his heater. He looked completely different than in Spring Training. Did his adjustment of keeping his shoulder closed do this?

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