Stats – Some you can live without

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Stats – Some you can live without

This topic contains 35 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Avatar Minuteman3 2 months, 4 weeks ago.

Viewing 11 posts - 26 through 36 (of 36 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #93647
    Avatar
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    <PugsleyAddams wrote:

    Believe it or not, there was a time I scoffed at stats such as wOBA and wRC+. Wanted no part of them. Then it hit me…….don’t get old Pugs! Embrace these new useful tools with the gusto of a little schoolgirl opening up a package of LOL goodies, and you’ll stay young forever and ever. So now give me a heeping portion of BQR-S, IR-A, IR-A%, LD% and SIERA…..and I’m a happy camper!>

    BAH HUMBUG

    #93652
    Avatar
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    Trivia Stat: Which Cardinal pitcher has the best won/loss record today?
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    John Gant 5-0

    #93653
    Avatar
    Cardinals27
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Also in the stats I posted our Center Fielders are 6th in WAR? I would imagine Fowler has played the most innings out there to date. This is why I don’t pay attention to WAR. My eyes tell me that Bader is an exceptional fielder, and that Fowler is a below average right fielder, much less Center Fielder.

    #100639
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Wishing those content to remain aloof of “new stats” would read this article by my friend Don Drooker. A contemporary of mine, Don uses real player examples to illustrate the value of OPS in an easy-to-read article.

    https://rotisserieduck.com/2019/08/02/believe-in-the-ops-2/

    #100645
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I enjoyed reading that article…..I agree it is an easy read for those still transitioning to more modern stats.

    #100653
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Perhaps Don can do it because he is a sports memorabilia expert – including owning hundreds of cards. He is my go-to guy for help in the area.

    Will our resident horses taste the water? I am hoping so, but guessing not.

    #100656
    Avatar
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    BW: I suppose you could place me in the “old farts opposed to change” column, though perhaps not completely. I enjoyed your friend’s article.
    In fact I don’t mind the new age statistics, I just can’t be bothered with them myself. They don’t help me better understand the game I love, often the contrary. But if others do profit from them and get pleasure out of flinging these figures around, have at it. Just allow me to be a little grumpy on the subject once in a while.
    I’m not a strict “back of the bubble gum card” guy, despite what some of my comments might suggest. I have in recent years grown to appreciate such things as OPB, OPS, even DRS, but frankly I can live without WAR, wRC+, BABIP, BQR and their ilk. They seem to lessen the beauty and romance of the game.

    #100660
    Avatar
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I am more of an old school stats guy too but I dabble in modern stats some. My favorites are on the pitching side. I have finally acknowledged that a pitcher’s w-l record is mostly irrelevant. It isn’t because of non controllables like defense and run support. It is because most starters don’t go long enough anymore. You leave the game after 5.1 inning with a one run lead and chances are you are not going to figure into the decision. I prefer looking at batting avg against and WHIP. Those two usually tell the tale. Even ERA can be misleading due to one very bad outing.

    #100728
    Avatar
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I don’t even look at W-L anymore. I like what gscottar says regarding WHIP and Opposition Batting Average, they hone in more on effectiveness. I also use pitcher’s Game Scores and list every starter’s daily along with IP and ER. The GS allows you to see if a pitcher is improving and if you use a line graph it is even more telling. The daily records can let you see who fills out the rotation during the entire season (since they change often) and whose spot will be coming up and when.

    On the batting side I like the OBP but have some trouble relating to OPS. I grew up with BA and have a clear-cut understanding of what that means in evaluation. Shoot me.

    Month to month stats are also very helpful in judging hitters and pitchers. Players are changing teams constantly and watching for improvement when stepping up levels catches my eye. I check all the teams’ transitions everyday and adjust rosters accordingly.

    I need to know personal profiles also: age- stature- draft round and years of pro ball.

    #100737
    Brian Walton
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Game Scores seem to be fading away. As far as I can tell, they are no longer listed on the MiLB website. Too tedious for me to look at each minor league player’s Game Log at Baseball Reference. Or do you find them elsewhere?

    #102190
    Avatar
    Minuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    You know us old school guys, after our playing days were over, used to just go into a local independent or minor league game, sit down, have a brewski and enjoy watching the game. We weren’t hit with a ton of statistics for every batter and pitcher and really didn’t care. TV of local games was an unknown and even major league games were on only once per week. Yep, we all had our favorites and tended to follow them through box scores in the local news rag. There were even some stats there too but nothing like “Joe Blow is now 23rd SS in history to hit 3 doubles in a 9 inning game at Podunk Stadium during the month of April.”

    That is my meek effort to explain what I am not a devotee of baseball stats to the extreme. Some are and I have no problem with that but people talk about the game changing and the development of sabremetrics is another way in which it has. Whether that is for the betterment or degradation of the game is up to the fan. Tinkering with the ball and the rules are two other areas that have either helped or hurt – you be the judge. Some whine about the 2nd base slide rule but before that rule the ‘neighborhood play’ was evolved. If they wanted to keep things as they were perhaps the SS and 2B players should be issued catchers gear. And why not make it the same way at first and third – slide to take out the defender. Sounds silly but so do some of the whines. I love this game and don’t mind saying (some say whining) so. GO CARDS

Viewing 11 posts - 26 through 36 (of 36 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years