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After Thursday’s day off
6:15 p.m.
RHP Andre Pallante (5-4, 3.76) vs. LHP Shota Imanaga (4-5, 4.04)
Cards.TV // KMOV-TV // KMOX // WIJRNote: The Cards switched Pallante’s and Leahy’s spots in the order.
Has anybody noticed any evidence of rebuilding?
Frankly, I’ve long been confused about what the term “rebuild” actually means. So far, a third of the season has passed and from what I can tell, it’s pretty much the same old bricks on the building site.
I guess we’ve juggled a few pitching bricks, and this Torres guy has been fun to watch lately but he’s only been here a week, and the bench is unlikely to extract many chestnuts from anybody’s fire. Just a truckload of same old same old. Where’s the beef? Where are the new faces? I fear our recent surge over .500 is not the future.
Consequently, I must side with our pal Rats. We need a bunch of somebodies who can hit.
Rebuild? As Ricky Ricardo used to say, “Splain it to me Lucy.”
CiF, the fastest, surest and cheapest way to succeed is to define success so as to encompass whatever you have achieved. I think we are supposed to look at this season along those lines. In other words, define the organization’s objective so as to encompass what we are seeing.
The “rebuild” is three-fold. Hire a lot of good instructors and invest more in technology (check, probably). Sell off the veteran older players for whatever we can get to reduce payroll and give opportunities to younger players (check). Develop young players at both the major and minor league level who can give the team a competitive advantage (remains to be seen but there are some promising signs like with Walker, Baez, Crooks, R. Rodriguez, etc – however pitching has been limited in development mostly to just our current starting rotation becoming a bit more effective thus far). We are sort of 2 years into the rebuild now or just 2 months in depending on your perspective.
Though the Cardinals never used the word “rebuilding”, they have been very clear about their intentions from the start – cut payroll, play younger players, restock the farm.
Not sure why some are unsure/unclear about this multi-year plan.
My only guess is that this is coming up right now because the major league team is not competing at the same level as the divisional leaders, which again, most everyone expected would be the case coming into 2026.
Perhaps some saw the early returns this season and thought the “rebuild” or whatever you call it, had created instantaneous results.
Jnevel is spot on for the goals of the year and I think the team is trying to get there and they have just exceeded expectations for this year so far. They have paved the way for younger players to get more playing time and it has worked very well in some cases like Jordan Walker. Not so well for well for others like Gorman at least offensively.
To me the year is about finding who we can count on to be a solid regular. Wetherholt, McGreevy, and Walker have stepped up to show they can in addition to the existing trip of Burly, Herrera, and Winn albeit with Winn being much more defensive value. Church may have a chance to be a good role player.
But it is also just as important to find out who may not be a good starter. Gorman and Scott have not shown improvements and show the org needs to emphasize obtaining a 3B or CF of the future with Church maybe being an option for CF but we need more time on him.
The one thing I want to see change is Crooks start get a shot and take the Pages PA. Pages isn’t going to be good starting C. Give Crooks a shot to see what he has. I also want to see them just DFA Bruihl and accept they lose depth, but then just try out Mathews, Mautz, Hansen at that leftie RP role. The org needs to know if they can count on one of them to at least pitch solidly out of the pen.
One issue lately has been that Winn and Scott went from the “spectacular” level of defense to the “good” level while both are also struggling at the plate. For Scott, struggling is probably an understatement.
Nootbaar may be able to help some of the offensive woes – especially if that means Scott goes down to AAA and Church or Torres mans CF. The team could also use a right handed complement to Burleson or Gorman. That very well could be Blaze Jordan. I’m still not quite ready to pull that lever yet, but we should by July 1 if Blaze is still mashing. Until then, there should be no sense of urgency. Let him keep getting better. There’s always Baez and Crooks, but I definitely want to keep waiting on those two.
That would mean adding Nootbaar, Church, and Jordan to the 26-man and subtracting Scott, Saggese, and Prieto. Overall, that should improve the offense.
Jnevel explained the “rebuild” well. The only thing you missed CIF is the time frame. “Rebuilding” or resetting or whatever you want to call it is an investment in the future. It probably won’t happen right away. Thus what you see today looks similar to recent years because the reset is just staring.
Sort of like looking at your financial investments a couple of months after you made the commitment and saying, “the numbers still look about the same, are you sure this will really get me to my financial goals?” Give it time.
I hope the Cardinals don’t turn out to be the cure for whatever is ailing the Cubs. We don’t know how resilient the team is dealing with a patch of adversity.
Might the return of Nootbaar from the IL be the Cardinals’ big jolt coming into the series?
“It’s like making a trade!” 😉
Over the past 4 seasons, one of our hitters has this line vs left handed pitching:
.230 BA
.265 OBP
65 WRC+
4.7% Walk RateThose are Burleson’s numbers. I know you guys hate platoons, but this is the reason you often see them. Burleson is actually a worse hitter than Victor Scott is overall when Burleson faces lefties. And sadly, his stats are even worse this season.
Gorman is actually statistically better vs lefties than righties FWIW. Yet he’s the one we typically see get replaced.
Just food for thought.
I feel like the “rebuild” has been going a little better than expected in terms of the big league win-loss record. So that part is good. On the not good, it feels like we are still waiting on the pitching pipeline to really develop at the higher levels, which tempers my hopes for the next 3-4 years. The “real” prospects all seem to be hurt or scuffling. I have some hope that maybe Bloom and Co. have a trick or two up their sleeve, but it’s possible that our guys just aren’t that good. If we cannot develop at least 3 more rotation arms (in addition to McGreevy, who is a #4/5), with one or two being mid rotation or better…it will be tough sledding to get back into contention.
Those are Burleson’s numbers. I know you guys hate platoons, but this is the reason you often see them. Burleson is actually a worse hitter than Victor Scott is overall when Burleson faces lefties. And sadly, his stats are even worse this season.
The issue is, who on the current roster replaces him? Our bench is the worst part of the team. Jordan seems like he could help out, but Marmol would probably give him the Luken Baker treatment.
J you are probably not looking atfancy enough metrics. I am reluctant to think the org has aknowledged something as intagible as the adverse effect of jerking a guy in and outof the lineup and up and down within the lineup. But i admit the stability of the upper part of the lineup is un-Cardinal-like.
My thinking in my initial remarks above is that “rebuilding,” or “resetting,” as I’m sure I’ve heard Cardinal brass use, implies dissatisfaction with the team as it was last year and a need to change it. I merely asked for evidence that this is happening to any significant degree so far this season.
I don’t have any claim to great inside baseball knowledge. I am merely an ordinary Cardinals fan. And when I look at today’s Cardinals I don’t’ see much differences with last year’s version. I’m not naive enough to expect a rapid transformation from a mediocre baseball team to legendary status, but I would have thought that some visible progress would have begun to emerge. I’m not trying to sound like your grumpy old grandpa, though I guess perhaps I am. Hot streaks like our most recent still make my day and send me running to the morning box score!
Rah Cardinals!
but I would have thought that some visible progress would have begun to emerge.
What does this look like to you CiF?
For me, the ascension of Walker – getting him fixed – looks like progress. What they have done to help May, Leahy, Pallante, McGreevey, and to some extent Liberatore looks like progress. Those are all legitimate starting pitching options now whereas they were borderline (or mostly injured and ineffective in May’s case) a year ago. What they have worked on with O’Brien looks like progress. I’m not mentioning JJ because I’m not entirely certain they’ve done anything to help him much. What is being done with many of the hitters at the minor league level looks like progress though. Several are looking really promising.
Are there big questions, especially around future pitching? Absolutely! I don’t see a lot of progress there at all except on the acquisition side. I’m also really worried about Victor Scott and whether they can fix him or not and how long they will keep trying at the ML level. Gorman’s strikeout rate and overall hitting profile are also concerning, but at least he’s above replacement level. Those are all big concerns. But they haven’t had as much time to fix those as they have had on some of the areas of success so I’m willing to be patient there.
I think jnevel explained the rebuild very accurately. Based on what I have seen the team is ahead of schedule, which should be considered a good thing.
I don’t know why everything is viewed so negatively all of a sudden. Because we just lost 4 in a row?? Ok, sure losing 4 in a row isn’t fun but I don’t see the need to be so knee-jerk about it. Overall this seaosn has been a spectacular success so far. Milwaukee is a very good team. What they have built (winning regularly on a low budget) is what the Cardinals aspire to do. We are on our way to doing it.
Is there still a chance we collapse and finish a distant 5th in the division? Yes it is possible but let’s wait until it actually happens until we collectively jump off of the cliff. I get the feeling some on this board want it to happen so they will have something to complain about.
Good comments. Again CIF, it’s tough to say too much about the progress of the new regime after only two months of competitive games. The plan is based on longer term success.
But if I had to answer on whether I see any progress or not, I would say yes. Not only are there some good results like jnevel mentioned, the energy from the team appears better to me. Not being involved personally that is a bit tough to know for sure, but it looks like guys hustle, and are having fun.
We will know a lot more once we get to around 2028-29, but I see more good than bad in these first couple of months.
This team is not going to be a contender with what they have on the field now. I don’t care what year it is. And I don’t care what all of those stupid metrics tell anyone.
The only – ONLY – way this team will ever contend is to sign a big free agent bat and a top of the line rotation starting pitcher.
At this stage, the important stuff could be happening below the level of the major league roster. So looking for evidence in the wrong place would yield little.
Over the past 4 seasons, one of our hitters has this line vs left handed pitching:
.230 BA
.265 OBP
65 WRC+
4.7% Walk RateThose are Burleson’s numbers. I know you guys hate platoons, but this is the reason you often see them. Burleson is actually a worse hitter than Victor Scott is overall when Burleson faces lefties. And sadly, his stats are even worse this season.
His numbers vs LHP were awful 2022-2024, and I was saying platoon him last year and then he went and put up .271/.310/.398 vs LHP last season. This season has gone back to being .912 OPS vs RHP and a .513 OPS vs LHP. I don’t know what Blaze Jordan’s splits are like in AAA, but wouldn’t be opposed to giving it a look at more of a platoon, Saggese would be an easy option out for him, but there has to be a 40 man spot for him too. The roster is very LH heavy, and Church and Nootbaar should both be back soon and both LH also.
This past series with MIL shows me that our above .500 record is a mirage. I did myself a disservice by getting happy on the ride of winning, But it wasn’t sustainable and the reality is hitting hard how bare the cupboard was left by the incompetent Mozeliak. Oh well…I don’t expect to win the series against the slumping Cubs, I hope we can scratch out a win somehow this weekend,
So far I would say this team has well exceeded expectations and one of the reasons I think they have is because the expectations were set so low before the season that very little pressure was placed on the players. We have the second youngest team in baseball so for them to be able to just go play with little pressure on them has been a big benefit in my opinion. Of course that can’t be quantified.
I would have to go back and look at our predictions thread but I don’t recall too many people predicting we would have a record of .500 or better and I certainly don’t recall many, if any, national writers or betting sites suggesting that we would. Who knows what our record will end up being but it isn’t far fetched to think we will end up around .500 which I think would have to be classified as a success.
No question about it, gscottar…”So far.” June rolls around in a few days and there’s 108 games that have yet to be placed into the books. The blistering heat of a summertime 162 game Big League baseball season is right around the corner and always places teams precisely where they belong in the baseball hierarchy. They’ve been entertaining to watch to this point, but the fun and games could vanish in a hurry. We’ll see what happens.
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