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Torre and Yadi are apples and oranges.
Torre managed nine years for the Mets and Braves before coming to StL. The Cards fired him for the third time. Having a big budget future Hall of Fame roster with the Yankees instead of the bargain bin Cardinals of the early 1990s certainly helped him earn his own spot in Cooperstown.
Torre finished his managerial career with three non-playoff seasons with the Dodgers.
Yadi hasn’t shown any interest in a daily job helping sort out prospects and hopefuls in relative obscurity beyond some local interest. When and if a potential path to glory emerges, he will emerge from the mist.
Not to belabor the point, Brian, but during that same era when Torre was winning all those championships, the Atlanta Braves made the playoffs 11 years in a row, 1995 to 2005, but only won one championship. And that was with Glavin, Smoltz, and Maddux, arguably the greatest threesome starting group in history. Give Torre his due.
But that just drives home the point how far we are from making a championship run. 2006 was a complete fluke that might not be duplicated this century. To have a reasonable shot at a championship, you need a lot of above average players. The 2025 national league average BA was .247, That’s the average. We need guys BETTER than that. Ditto pitching.
I am not down on Torre in the slightest. I have the pleasure of working with him on the Cardinals Hall of Fame Committee. He is knowledgeable and professional to the max and of course is highly accomplished.
My point is that unlike Yadi, Torre did not need grooming to be an MLB manager when he arrived in StL.
However, it is also fair to note that Torre made the Hall thanks to his excellent results with one of his four teams managed. That is not criticism; it is fact.
I agree the Cardinals need better players.
P.S. Regarding the Braves of 1995-2005, manager Bobby Cox is also deservedly in the Hall of Fame.
Marmol is starting to receive praise for his “cerebral” approach.
You’d expect it from MLB.com (Will Leitch).
https://www.mlb.com/cardinals/news/cardinals-manager-oliver-marmol-success-recipe-2026
Brendan Schaeffer agrees, but he also works for the Cardinals website. So there’s that.
"I think this is a very cerebral coaching staff that probably doesn't get enough credit from #STLCards fans."
Does the Cardinals coaching staff deserve more credit? @bschaeffer12 thinks it probably does pic.twitter.com/f4iQxfxjkQ
— STL Sports Central (@STLSprtsCntrl) May 13, 2026
And another team employee weighs in…
Did you know Oli Marmol has more wins than Tony La Russa in his first four years as Cardinals manager?
"Give the man time to do his work, "#STLCards TV voice Chip Caray tells @ChrisAmyKMOX.
🔊Listen: https://t.co/o39kygUYer pic.twitter.com/a5iGN9JfP1
— KMOX Sports (@KMOXSports) May 13, 2026
Marmol has done a fine job. It also helps to have a smart front office and new investments in player development.
A bad manager can really screw up a team. A good manager is what his players make of him. A great manager (so I’ve read) is worth 4-5 extra wins over the course of a season.
Clubhouse chemistry / mood probably has as much as anything to do with whether an ‘average’ team is a few games over or a few games under .500.
I have stated that I will not trash Olli but I feel it was a mistake for Mo to make him a manaager when he did, and unfair to Ollie as well,
I have gone on record that I was not going to trash Ollie again. I feel that he has improved in his lineup decisions and somewhat in bullpen decisions.
I also feel that the coaching staff that Bloom has put together deserves a lot of credit for what the team and our entire system is becoming.
fair i
I was not in favor of the firing of Shildt and hiring of Marmol. And Ollie’s managing seemed below average his first 2-3 years.
But it seems like he has been learning on the job and is much better. I see a team this year with a ton of heart and hustle. I think he and the coaching staff are pretty darn good.
I’m still not liking some of Olis moves. And I think the team is better due to trades made. We have gone away from veterans, and utilizing youth. Walkers amazing turnaround has been instrumental in our success. Wetherholt has been very good so far too.
Does this speak to the manager or the team’s depth or something else?
Oli Marmol’s managerial record by month since 2023:
March: 7-7 (.500)
April: 49-58 (.458)
May: 60-46 (.566)
June: 51-53 (.490)
July: 45-59 (.433)
August: 50-61 (.450)
September: 44-49 (.473)Overall: 307-333 (.480)
Don’t read this as an anti-Oli post… however what interests… pic.twitter.com/qKaDlY0K7f
— Cardinals Talk (@theredbird_way) September 20, 2026
I’m indifferent about Ollie. I’m uncertain about how much managerial decisions affect W-L over an entire season. I’ve always felt you either have a good team or you don’t. That is not to say I don’t get irritated at certain decisions sometimes. On the other hand, how many brilliant decisions do we even acknowledge, or even recognize?
It probably speaks to being sellers or standing pat more often than not during his tenure. Unlike the days of Whitey Herzog current managers do not set the roster. They go with what they are given.
Does this speak to the manager or the team’s depth or something else?
Ollie was hired because he knew Mo’s system and could be counted on be a compliant, non-squeaky cog in the machine. His tenure included the final meltdown as Mo dissipated 100 years of organizational tribal knowledge and bled off the last of 100 years of momentum. Ollie’s record after 2023 is the bottom.
Does anyone think that he’ll ever manage another team other than the one that currently employs him?
He’s a smart Manager that fits today’s style and now has good experience under his belt, so emphatically yes. He would find another opportunity.
In my opinion, he’s the best Manager at managing a bullpen I’ve seen. My tenure starts with Whitey. The players seem to like him and other coaches seem to like him. Umpires don’t seem to like him – at least the bad ones. I disagree on occasion with a move he makes. Sometimes I’m right. Sometimes I’m wrong. That’s to be expected. He is young and the team has been stuck in neutral since he took over. I assume those are the 2 reasons some people don’t like him. He can’t do anything about the former. I’m not sure he can do much about the latter given the talent he’s inherited.
I think he’s evolved a lot since he first took the job. His public scuffle with Tyler O’Neill was very poorly handled. His public criticism of Giovanny Gallegos also really bothered me. Since that time, I think he’s done a better job of handling these sorts of issues in-house, which is critical now that we have a younger team. I feel like the dust up with Doug Eddings shows that he’s willing and able to stand up for his players. He still takes some criticism of his team to the press, but I think that’s when it’s just gotten so bad that it’s impossible to ignore (like this seasons many bullpen collapses in the second half) and I can’t recall the last time he publicly called out a specific player.
I think Oli has won over the clubhouse and this year’s results, although not ideal, show that he can get a lot out of the guys that play for him. In today’s data-fueled game, I think most calls to the bullpen and pinch-hitting decisions are more or less out of the manager’s hands. Having someone that is respected and well-liked in the clubhouse is mostly what you want in a manager and after some growing pains, I think that’s what Oli’s turned himself into.
Good assessment Blues86. I tend to agree. He has had to do OJT and seems to get a lot out of the personnel he is given, and it seems the younger guys especially go all out for him. He didn’t always handle things well in his first couple of years, but has upped his game as he has gotten experience.
IMHO he really should have managed in the minors a few years first and he would have come on better prepared, but it is what it is and the big league club had to suffer the consequences of inexperience.
My sense is he is respected among the manager’s fraternity as well, with Dave Roberts calling on him to be part of the All Star experience this year.
Not a smooth ride, but one that has leveled out and he is pretty good at his craft these days.
As for the sort of parabolic shaped record, I think gscottar has some good insight on that. Who knows, maybe the schedule had something to do with it as well.
So far ollie hasnt changed my mind. I feel as long as he is our manager,the cardinals will never win another world series. .
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