September 11, 2017 at 1:43 pm #32766PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
I didn’t like it at the time, but his resurgence this season has been pretty great to see. I don’t think WAR accurately rates his value.September 11, 2017 at 6:06 pm #32786bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I was happy that we kept Molina, as he deserved a shot at finishing his career as a Cardinal. Maybe he will play on after this deal ends, but I liked the deal from a legacy standpoint, and like Mo said at the signing, I felt he still had enough left to bring some decent value on the field.
I would have preferred us keeping Kelly at AAA all year, and starting his career next year as Yadi’s backup, with the two splitting time in ’19. But that’s not a huge deal. Most of one more year under Yadi is certainly good schooling.September 14, 2017 at 12:25 pm #32967
mud…. that’s exactly why I can’t put Kelly in the top three. He isn’t and won’t be playing enough to make much of a contribution. He would probably be starting for some MLB teams in ’18…. but not in St. Louis. I think that the F.O. made a decision to spend money on Molina and have him play the next three seasons. That’s enough time for Kelly to lead in league in splinters. Another FO screw up.
ps. don’t get me wrong, I’ve always been a Kelly fan (I watched a short clip of him driving to his first spring training) but how much more can he learn from Matheny? He may be the real deal but how will anyone know? He could be ripping it up but only Molina will decide when CK gets any playing time. Something just ain’t right here. Sorry Carson…. no soup for you.September 14, 2017 at 3:18 pm #32987
If the Cards trade Kelly for a good take and Molina remains productive, how could that be a front office screw up? It may not happen, but my continued point is that it is far too early to make any pronouncements about Molina’s extension. After all, it hasn’t even started yet!September 15, 2017 at 10:35 am #33031
I know the extension hasn’t started yet, but for Kelly’s future with the organization, it has already had its’ consequences.
I guess I need to clarify my opinion on this issue since I’m getting some chin music from a few the other contributors to this site. This is what I’m seeing. We have a highly touted C prospect for the first time this century. (the organization didn’t feel it was necessary to seek one out partially due to Molina’s presence). Kelly was converted to a C and his ETA was pegged to Molina’s departure (contract) or age-related regression. Kelly actually lost time on learning the position.
Fast forward to the time when Molina’s contract was due to expire. Kelly was now regarded as the #1 catching prospect in the nation and Molina was starting to show some wear. For some MLB teams it would have been a no-brainer to go with the future. However, the situation in St. Louis was something that had the people in the main office walking on egg shells. To be considered was the organization’s regard for their fans, the local media outlets (TV, newspapers, talk shows etc.). They all have something to sell. Molina was the face of this team. Accolades were passed out freely.
The Cards were faced with a problem rarely seen in MLB these days. Give in to Molina’s demands for three years or let him make his own deal elsewhere. At that time I thought that Molina’s ego was big enough for him to choose elsewhere. I saw how he loved playing for team Puerto Rico and in the all-star game. I thought that that would be his final choice.
For the reasons given above, somehow the FO felt it had to roll the dice with Molina. That seemed to be the safest way out…. avoiding backlash from the people that had a financial stake in seeing Molina stay a Cardinal. I was surprised how that played out. Molina got his contract and Kelly… well, “we’ll see”, we were told. He could become a good starting option should the need arise.
Now, if they kept Kelly instead, and he didn’t pan out, well, I can’t even think clearly about how that would go over. The FO could not possibly have foreseen the giant step Knizner would take to present them with a bonafide C option and maybe… just maybe… that would have held some sway. Knizner is on his way to becoming a top-10 Card prospect and fits in better with what their plan has become.
It appears to me that Molina can call his own shots, play when he wants and criticize management, and actually get support from the fan base and colleagues. I don’t live in the StL area, but I check out the PD regularly. I may be wrong about some or all of this thinking, but I have lost respect for Yadi so much so that I feel that he has, and will continue to stunt the growth of the farm system at the catching position, and that’s something I feel strongly disagree with happening.
It’s the team’s money and positively they hope that they have spent it wisely… I have serious doubts about that. My turn >>>>>>> we’ll see.September 15, 2017 at 1:05 pm #33050
Nyquis, I understand what you are saying about the fans, the media, etc., but what was gained by doing this a year early? Nothing that I can see.
I also think if for some reason Molina had ended up walking, the fans would have accepted it. The FO gained a lot of credibility in situations like this for what appears to be an excellent decision regarding Pujols. Not sure why they didn’t cash that in.September 15, 2017 at 1:10 pm #33052PadsFSParticipantPaid - Annual
Well, Pujols landed us two 1st rounders ~ Wacha and Piscotty. Plus the $20+M in saved salaries….September 16, 2017 at 9:35 am #33130
The Cards gave Molina more $$ than he would have gotten anywhere else, a lot more. If he had walked that would have been his decision and would have been accepted by most. That’s why the FO is to blame for this situation that has an effect on several other careers. Important careers.September 16, 2017 at 10:03 am #33137Cards1776ParticipantFree
14NyquisT, what do you foresee “in the cards” during the next year for the other promising prospects in the farm system if Molina stays put?September 21, 2017 at 11:41 am #33638
Per Cardinals media relations:
Yadier Molina moved past Jim Bottomley into the Top 10 in Cardinals history in hits with his 1,728th last night.September 21, 2017 at 12:03 pm #33642
I don’t understand the Molina hate by some fans. Its not Molina is not preforming because he is.September 21, 2017 at 12:13 pm #33644BrianpnoonanParticipantFree
I dont see it as hate. All athletes struggle with this when they start going downhill.
The fans want the best player playing. Period.
We just happen to have a good long term replacement.September 21, 2017 at 12:21 pm #33647
Disappointment over public comments made and/or unhappiness over a contract extension granted can be made without expressing hate of anyone.September 21, 2017 at 12:22 pm #33648
That’s what I find hilarious though. We have a guy who is still playing high caliber baseball at a premium position and certain fans are wanting to run him out of town for an unproven Carson Kelly. Then these same fans will whine and moan about a player not being loyal to the fans, city, team, etc.September 21, 2017 at 12:26 pm #33650
the thing is…people are trying to find reasons to show Yadi is declining to further the agenda that:
-the front office is dumb for giving him an extension
-the extension itself is terrible
-Yadi should be dumped because he is old
-Kelly should be playing more at the expense of Yadi’s time
I just dont see enough evidence (or even a little) to prove he is declining in any way, and if it is it is marginal and still puts his worth higher than any other available option internally or externally…September 21, 2017 at 1:32 pm #33660Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
1.The front office WAS dumb for giving him that much money.
2.Nobody said he should be dumped.IMO reducing his workload would do two things;keep him fresher and give experience to Kelly.
3.Kelly should be getting some playing time because of stated reasons above.
4.Molina is still good but he is NOT the Molina of a few years ago defensively.Other teams announcers ( former MLB players say ;Molina still a good catcher but not the great catcher he once was).Nobody says he stinks but you still can`t be the clock.September 21, 2017 at 1:37 pm #33661
In all fairness, Molina brought on some of the negative attention through his own social media actions questioning his manager. Some people were also bothered by that. Given he is 35 years old, it would seem to be more perspective-based than immaturity-driven.September 21, 2017 at 2:45 pm #33665
I personally didn’t have a problem with him saying he didn’t want days off. A lot of people made it a bigger issue than it was.September 22, 2017 at 7:46 am #33686
Molina is just second among MLB catchers in at-bats this season. J.T. Realmuto of Miami leads him, 502 to 492.
Molina leads all MLB catchers in RBI with 82, sort of. Gary Sanchez of the Yankees has 88, but 10 of them came when he was PH/DH/1B. He has about 50 fewer at-bats than Molina overall.September 22, 2017 at 3:31 pm #33798
why is giving a good contract to a good player who is producing a bad thing?
yes people were saying he should be let go instead of re-signing him…go back and look
there is no evidence that less playing time would result in better stats for Molina nor better play from the team…you cant beat father time…but you can put him off… Yadi wouldn’t be the first guy who can play at a high level into his late 30’s
Kelly has shown nothign but minor league stats to show such extreme confidence that he can produce at the MLB level…definitely nothign at the level of moving off a top 5 catcher of his routine
yes Molina is still good…his “good” is still WAY better than most catchers out there…and definitely better than any other options out there including KellySeptember 22, 2017 at 3:52 pm #33800
Molina is not going to be $60 milliin good over the next 3 years. Is Molina still good. Yes. $20 million a year good? No.
It is not a problem with signing a good player. It is about giving a good player a top tier contract.September 23, 2017 at 10:45 am #33857
Until he shows he isn’t worth the salary he deserves it IMO
You pay what it takes to keep someone sometimes. Paying more than WAR projections doesn’t mean it isn’t worth every cent
Most is onfield play. But also the value of him not playing against you has worth. Value of veteran status. Clubhouse. Mentoring. Fan base love also has worth.
Quantifying worth is far from precise. And performance evaluating whether someone has earned that worth is even farther from exacting.September 23, 2017 at 10:51 am #33858
Not related to contract, but Molina’s wife initiated collecting money for hurricane relief in Puerto Rico. Other players from their homeland also started fund-raising initiatives.September 23, 2017 at 11:31 am #33862
Jag, if you are going to go to the default that they desrve it until they prove don’t, you better being going year to year.
Leadership? Where has that been on a team most people think has lacked leadership? A frontal assault on the manager in the media about playing time? Publicly showing a defiant, non team oriented attitude? Not hustling on botg offense and defense? Oh, that leadership!September 23, 2017 at 3:35 pm #33916
Show me a year to year contract out there
No player goes year to year outside the crazy exception like Lincecum early on or marginal Mlb talent. And Yadi is top 5 level at his position unless HE wanted to it wouldn’t happen so saying that is even an option is just unfair to even posit
Again with the MOST people comment. I’ll just say it too and it will have the same worthless value as a discussion point. Most people think YAdi is great and one of the best ever and active catchers defensively ever. Most people think his value to making pitchers better and calling a game is unmatched in baseball. Most people think we are spoiled by seeing how good he is and have little understanding of what it means to have a poor catcher.
The team determines the value not you or the media. I gave options for value not necessarily the ones they determined were to be used nor their criteria for meeting that value. They did that and determined he deserved what they gave him. And what happened? He performed brilliantly and has been healthy.
And the team is right in the hunt. Even without 2 starters from the rotation and a totally different bullpen.
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