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O’Neill took the Cardinals all the way in arbitration and lost. That wouldn’t set well. It rarely happens. He’s in his first year of arbitration so he’s under control for 2 more years. He’s a possible trade chip with Yepez, Gomez, and Walker coming on so strong.
Walker has a great arm, so that fits in RF. The thought of Gorman in LF is really intriguing.
Next year the Cardinal’s 13-man position players:
C-Contreras
1B-Goldy
2B-Edman
SS-DeJong
3B-Arenado
LF-Gorman
CF-Carlson
RF-Walker
DH-Burleson vs LH/Yepez RH
Donavan- Utility player primarily on the infield.
Knizner or Herrara-back-up catcher
Nootbar or Gomez-back-up OFWho’s the better trade chip, Mike, Carlson or O’Neill?
Both from the seller’s and buyer’s standpoint.I would think O’Neill from the seller’s viewpoint, and Carlson from the buyer’s side.
Then again, I suppose if Carlson is a better option for a buyer, you should be able to get a better return as a seller. Don’t want to deal both at this point though, as they are the two top options at center field with Bader gone. Then I suppose Nootbaar is the third guy there.
Next year the Cardinal’s 13-man position players:
C-Contreras
1B-Goldy
2B-Edman
SS-DeJong
3B-Arenado
LF-Gorman
CF-Carlson
RF-Walker
DH-Burleson vs LH/Yepez RH
Donavan- Utility player primarily on the infield.
Knizner or Herrara-back-up catcher
Nootbar or Gomez-back-up OFHas Gorman played any outfield? I am still not sold on DeJong as the everyday shorstop. It might come down to putting Edman there for a year, or until Winn takes over, and Gorman at second. Then if Winn claims the job in say ’24, you gotta decide what to do depending on how Gorman and Edman have produced in ’23.
If Gorman can learn 2B he can adapt to corner outfield just like Walker can. Edman can start at SS or 2B. Gorman can start in LF and be a backup at 3B & 2B & DH.
Just to be clear….
Gorman changing positions again is a fan-driven idea. No one from the Cardinals has even hinted about the possibility. Same with the idea presented here that Gorman would become a utility player like Donovan. Not likely at all.
Let’s step back and think about the environment.
With prospect outfielders Walker, Burleson and Gomez coming up soon, they don’t need to create even more corner outfielders by moving Gorman there. Middle infield depth is a much bigger concern and that is why he will stay put.
Some on this thread want to move Gorman to OF.
Winn is the only real middle infield prospect in the system anywhere close to MLB.
As I noted there are three corner OF prospects very close to MLB right now (all in our top 15 prospects) plus the four incumbents (O’Neill, Carlson, Nootbaar, Yepez). That is seven guys for three positions and at most two bench spots.
Any trade or position changes are just ideas coming from fans. With the facts on the table and no speculation, yes, middle infield depth is a bigger concern.
You don’t move guys off defensive positions that are more valuable (up the middle) to less important positions (like corner OF) without a good reason to do so. I haven’t seen such a reason.
I don’t find either OF depth or middle infield depth a concern. But if you want to talk about the catching situation, that’s a different story.
I do find the middle infield situation a little concerning. Gorman looks like a keeper, and Edman plays good defense but his noodle bat will need to improve and I just don’t see it happening. A combo of Edman and Dejong is fine until Winn is ready, but I feel like the Cards could stand to upgrade there.
As for Gomez, Adolis Garcia is the best case scenario for sure. I don’t see Gomez being more than a trade candidate to help upgrade elsewhere.
“As I noted there are three corner OF prospects very close to MLB right now (all in our top 15 prospects) plus the four incumbents (O’Neill, Carlson, Nootbaar, Yepez). That is seven guys for three positions and at most two bench spots”.
Yepez isn’t an outfielder IMO…he is a DH/1B.
O’Neill is injured a lot.
In 2023, Burleson should be in St. Louis and can DH or play corner outfield.
Walker will be at Memphis at the start of 2023 and could transition to St. Louis early in the year and play RF.
That leaves Carlson in CF, Walker in RF, Burleson as a DH/LF and Nootbaar as a 4th outfielder.
Move Nolan Gorman to LF, with Carlson-CF, Walker-RF as the starters.
Edman is the starter at 2B but can also start at SS
DeJong is the starting SS.
Donavan is a utility infielder that can also play OF.
Gorman can be a back-up at 3B, 2B or DH. He is there for his bat first.
Moises Gomez is an option at DH/OF.O’Neill is injured a lot.
O’Neill being hurt a lot doesn’t mean he won’t start in LF if he’s here. You don’t just take a middle infielder and make them a left fielder on a whim. Especially one like Gorman, who is far from swift.
On the idea of trading O’Neill, selling low on a guy who got significant MVP votes just a year ago makes little sense. Tommy Pham is the last guy I can recall that they traded like that, and he was a special case due to his personality. Tyler will assuredly start in the OF next year and Gorman will be at 2B.
Shortstop concerns me as DeJong has not been good for several years now, Sosa was traded, and Edman is streaky with only average offense.
I think you leave Gorman at second as there are plenty of potential outfield candidates. But no clear cut full-time productive shortstop candidates, other than possibly Edman.
The most important aspect of middle IF is defense. We have that with the crew we have. Let the bashers come from both the IF and OF corners.
Edman should start at 2B every day over Gorman. Gorman is a bat first…wherever he plays is secondary.
I moved this comment from the free agent topic.
When I look at the potential 2023 roster I see a huge hole for a catcher. That should be priority #1.
The rotation has plenty of candidates but mediocrity abounds. I’m not counting on Flaherty for much of anything but any success by him will be found money. I expect to see Wainwright somewhere in the rotation. Mikolas-Matz-Montgomery-Quitana-Hudson-Pallante-Woodford–Liberatore-Thomas-Parsons are all in the mix. Is Reyes toast same with Hicks?
The OF is the same collection of mediocrity and question marks all over the place. Unless O’Neill can find his past success and one or two of the youngsters step up it will be the same as this season. I am very much in favor of putting an OF glove on Gorman.
Will Goldschmidt and Arenado repeat their ’22 seasons?
Well that was fun. We’ll just have to wait to see reality fall into place = (What’s in Mo’s mind and DeWitt’s pockets).
And our now traditional annual search for a SS will continue on if DeJong can’t show more offensively.
I don’t know about that, GC. I’ve been an Edman fan for some time, but the ceiling for Winn is way up there. I’d put Edman back at 2B and Gorman in LF when Winn arrives, as has been suggested. Seems to me it could really be exciting to have Edman and Winn as your keystone combination. Terrific defense.
Edman had a great April. Since May 1 he has a 84 wRC+. Since June 1 it’s 76. Since July 1 it’s 51. Basically his entire value comes from defense and base running. He’s an excellent “super utility” guy, but there’s no way that you plug him in and say he’s unmovable in the lineup. He and Donovan pretty much serve the same role, from opposite sides of the coin.
Either are fine as the #9 guy in a lineup, with both moving up based on matchups. I like em but would be fine with moving one to upgrade elsewhere this winter.
Edman had a decent year last year and came out of the chute strong this season. He had a disastrous July, but has started to come on better in August. He needs to put it in high gear for the remainder of the regular schedule and into the playoffs.
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