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Kiz is at 1.1mil this season as an arb1.
His playing time has fallen this season but his offensive production has increased. As a bench player going forward my estimate would be 2mil as an arb2, and 3mil as an arb3.
He could do better $ amounts as a primary starter, but its hard to predict that. With bench player salaries, and increased offensive production, he has sneeky good trade value imo.
My view:
The Cardinals will need to give up good players to get good pitchers.
The Cardinals have a relative strength in the middle infield.
No player at those positions should be protected from trade consideration.
Saying player x could be a trade candidate is not a negative statement about player x.
The Cardinals should trade whoever gets them the best return, as only they will know, based on their internal criteria and offers from other clubs.
None of us can do any more than guess who may be traded.
None of the above matters if you are a fan of a player over the team…The Cardinals have a relative strength in the middle infield.
No player at those positions should be protected from trade consideration.. . . . . . . . .
The Cardinals should trade whoever gets them the best return,
Amongst middle infielders, Gorman is the heavy hitter value wise, followed I imagine by Winn. Mo would have to be getting a lot of pitching value in return, which is what we need. The utility players, while very good, would bring less in return.
Edman is our best Proven shortstop. 3 war shortstops on reasonable arb salaries are not common.
Donovan may be a better overall player than Edman, especially offensively, but everyday SS is a stretch for him.
Winn may be glove ready, but we don’t know if he can put up offensive numbers to avoid being a black hole in the lineup.
Trading Edman is a gamble for 2024.
jj said:
Winn may be glove ready, but we don’t know if he can put up offensive numbers to avoid being a black hole in the lineup.
Trading Edman is a gamble for 2024.
Agreed. That is precisely why Winn should be playing SS in StL right now. Two months would do a lot to help answer these important questions.
For his part, Winn was getting it done. In July, he put up an 1.188 OPS and was both the system Player of the Month and the International League Player of the Month. How much more does he have to prove with the bat before getting a chance?
Especially with Donovan out for the year, I would have brought up Winn the instant DeJong was traded. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200. Instead, they left Winn in Memphis and he got hurt. Another questionable move in a year of them for the front office.
I’m not advocating for trading Edman now that we have unloaded DeJong.
But the hero worship of Edman on this board is ridiculous.
I’m not advocating for trading Edman now that we have unloaded DeJong.
Like others have said, that depends upon what Winn looks like vs MLB. And yes, I agree the failure to get him here for an extended readiness check is yet another questionable decision. The level of apparent disfuncion early was alarming and there is evidence that it persists.
A matter of interest to me will be seeing how much play Baker gets this time. Replacing Carlson with Baker obviously has nothing to do with defensive coverage, so the reason would be to get Baker some MLB reps. That was probably the reason last time too and it didn’t happen.
Trading Edman would be a bit of a gamble but if there is another team out there willing to part with a quality pitcher for Tommy then you do it, even if it is just an innings eater. You could always sign a veteran SS on a cheap one year deal to provide insurance for Winn. Even DeJong will be a free agent.
Unless they spend a significant time at the local dispensary after stumbling out the tavern, my guess would be that no team is going to trade a quality SP’er for Tommy Edman alone or Tommy Edman included with a couple of castoffs. And it would also be my best guess that the only way another team would trade a SP’er that could termed a top of the rotation member of the 5 man would be if Edman were paired up with either Gorman or Walker. Life is such that you pretty much get what you play for.
That is the paradox we live in. Some say that Edman is the last player on the roster who should be traded but the reality is that the return probably wouldn’t be that great.
Winn is an untouchable unless he would bring 2 top notch starting pitchers/prospects. For me that would be like getting 2 of Bryce Miller, Bryan Woo or Emerson Hancock plus more from the Mariners. We have no SS prospects in our system, that I know of, who will be our SS in the future. Edman is a free agent after the 2025 season. That is risky to lay the whole future of SS on him signing an extension. That might also be a reason to keep Edman and Winn. Winn has the ability to be one of the best SS in the game.
Gorman looks like he will be a good hitter. He may strike out a lot but I expect him to hit .270-.290 each year with around 30-35 HRs. He plays an average 2B and could go back to 3B when Arenado leaves or maybe 1B. He would also require a major return for me to want him traded.
Donovan looks to be a better hitter than Edman but a less versatile fielder. (I would have no problem starting Edman in CF.) If he could play SS for an extended period of time, he would make Edman expendable. It is due to his hitting ability that I would like to keep Donovan.
The others are trade bait/filler IMO. We could trade Gorman or Walker but who will be our feared hitters when Arenado and Goldschmidt leave or slow down.
I hope I’m wrong, but I’m not sure Gorman will ever make enough consistent contact to hit for an average anything better than around the .250 range. However, I’m almost entirely convinced that he’ll rip 40 or more HR’s in a season before he’s done, so who cares about his BA? In ’79 Schmidt hit 45 HR’s and collected 114 RBI’s and no one mentioned his .253 BA. Schmidt also led the NL in K’s for 4 seasons during his career and three of those seasons were consecutive when he was at the ages of 24 to 26. I’d rather see them trade Walker than Nolan Gorman.
I’m not unlike most others on here in the sense that I’d like to get my first look at Winn as a Big League SS, but I don’t think it’s that big of a deal that he’ll be receiving his promotion in a little less than a week as opposed to less than 2 weeks ago. I agree that the more looks he receives the better, but I don’t feel like 130 PA’s as opposed to 180 is the end of the world. At the end of the day, I don’t think we’ll have a reasonably good idea regarding how he’ll perform with the bat facing Big League pitching until he sticks around for an entire season or more. At any rate, at least it’s something to look forward to in the latter half of August.
Part of the problem with this team has been defense. IMO Winn need to start at SS and Edman needs to be at 2nd where he’s a gold glover.
Donovan, Gorman and Burleson can DH, PH or spell the regulars for rest. I’d trade from the glut of outfielders for pitching.
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