Middle Infield

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  • #231188
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    NEVER trade Eddie!!!

    #231190
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    Trade Winn for pitching.

    #231192
    858booyah
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    As much as It pains me to say this…..they need to keep Edman for now.

    Donovan will likely not even be able to throw most of 2024 if at all.

    They appear to want to play Gorman at 2nd

    My guess is now Goldie will not get a legacy extension and will end up traded during the season or after.

    #231202
    jj-cf-stl
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    858,

    Edman: I’ve always felt Edman was the bridge to Winn, but will agree Mo may trade him this winter.

    Donovan, no throw for 2024? I didn’t realize. How did you come to this info?

    Gorman, agree

    Goldy, can’t be traded until this winter. Could be traded during 24′ but is a FA after.

    #231210
    bicyclemike
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    Edman and Donovan are similar in they give you good defense at most any place they play. I like Donovan’s bat a little better, so between the two would prefer to part with Tommy. But it’s got to be part of a deal where I get back what we need. Don’t just move one of them because you think there are too many guys who play the same role.

    If you can’t get what you need, keep him.

    #231226
    Brian Walton
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    We all know what they need – pitching. Surely they can get some, but it is going to hurt a little bit if they want quality in return. Middle infield is an area of strength. What happens this off-season seems pretty clear. Only the names are in question. But the guys getting more expensive may be the ones most likely to go.

    #231243
    Euro Dandy
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    But the guys getting more expensive may be the ones most likely to go.

    True in a decision to non-tender one of two similar players, but not so much in a trade. Depends on the value they are seeking and what matches it in return. The cheaper guy might be what it takes to make the opposing trade values more equitable.

    #231251
    blingboy
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    the guys getting more expensive may be the ones most likely to go.

    The same could be said for the outfield

    #231252
    Cardinal in France
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    Keep Edman, trade Winn. If Winn is so valuable perhaps we could get two pitchers of quality.

    #231256
    GameCard
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    C in France…this is what I hope they do.

    #231261
    Brian Walton
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    The Cards seem gun shy about trading guys who have the potential to become stars in the future. Edman, Donovan and Gorman, for example, are known quantities. Winn the major leaguer is not. September could be very important in that aspect.

    #231262
    blingboy
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    The Cards seem gun shy about trading guys who have the potential to become stars in the future.

    If Mo is reluctant to rely on his system’s ability to evaluate it’s own prospect level talent, why would he think he can effectively evaluate somebody else’s? As in all these prospects he just traded for.

    #231263
    bccran
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    Seems like the longer the control, the more value in a trade.

    #231267
    Brian Walton
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    blingboy said:

    If Mo is reluctant to rely on his system’s ability to evaluate it’s own prospect level talent, why would he think he can effectively evaluate somebody else’s? As in all these prospects he just traded for.

    If so, then what? Should they not even try to trade? Seems like another throwaway comment…

    #231268
    Brian Walton
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    bccran said:

    Seems like the longer the control, the more value in a trade.

    Generally so, but only if other factors are roughly equal. Control is one important consideration, but not the only one, of course. Projected performance probably matters most. Does the team want/need the player to contribute wins now, or later? etc…

    #231270
    blingboy
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    I think the point made was worthwhile, but I agree he has to try. And if the MLB.com prospect ranking is to be believed, he did an awesome job bolstering the talent level in the system. Time will sort reality from hype though.

    #231274
    Brian Walton
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    I will be more interested in seeing how others beyond the “official site” rank the prospects acquired. As we discussed elsewhere, a number of these guys seemed to become a lot better prospect simply by putting on another uniform. But as you suggest, the rankings are just placeholders until they play.

    #231276
    14NyquisT
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    Trade Winn…. he will bring back a better catch. We’ve had a number of SS prospects that fizzle once they hit the bigs. If Winn is one of them we’ve got a big hole at SS if Edman is traded.

    NEVER trade Eddie!!!

    #231283
    gscottar
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    If I were forced to choose between the two I would keep Winn and trade Edman but there is no reason the Cardinals can’t keep both during 2024. Give Winn a shot to be the everyday guy but have Edman around as insurance plus he can play all over the field. If Winn takes control of the job then Edman could be trade bait. If he doesn’t take control of the job then keep Edman.

    I know Edman has a lot of fans on this board but the reality is that his offense this year has really been no better than DeJong’s.

    #231285
    blingboy
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    Winn might have a great 2024 like DeJong had a great 2017.

    #231287
    gscottar
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    He might but the smart move would be to go year to year instead of signing him to a long term deal after the first two months of his career like they did with Paul.

    #231314
    Brian Walton
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    Agreed, gscottar. It seems the Cards have backed away from the early offering of extensions approach the last few years. I think that is a good idea. Let the young players earn the money through consistency over time. The salary arbitration process is in place and provides fair financial boundaries for both sides – team and player. The Cards should use it as it is intended.

    #231318
    jj-cf-stl
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    I estimate Edmans arb2 at 6.6mil (2024) and 9mil as an arb3 (2025) using Adam Fraziers past arb amounts as a comp.

    For my money, Edman is better, but these estimates also expect Tommy to continue his career production, and playing time.

    #231319
    blingboy
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    Any guess what Knizners arb 2 money would be next year?

    #231321
    Brian Walton
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    Referencing jj’s post, another angle might be to wonder how close could Winn approach Edman’s performance over the next two years? If equal, it could save the team $14 million over the 2024 and 2025 seasons. If less, you can take it down from there, but there is a potential financial benefit that could be significant. Of course, if they did it, one would have to hope the money went to pitching, but it never seems that simple.

    As I have speculated before, a similar analysis may have occurred when Edman was the younger player and it likely played into Kolten Wong’s early departure. Create a job for the young player and free up salary at the same time.

    The big difference in my example is that Edman was MLB-proven by then but Winn is not. All the more reason to get him up and into the lineup. The more information they have going into the off-season, the better.

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