Managerial Thought

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  • #188385
    bccran
    Participant

    Wonder what it’s like for a guy like Waino to be “managed” by a
    failed minor leaguer, with no major league managing experience, who’s 5 years younger than he is. I only ask this because of Waino’s apparent comment to Ollie last night while leaving the mound, as he was being pulled and replaced by McFarland.

    #188398
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Competitive big league starters don’t ever like to be removed from games no matter what the age of the manager is. Our previous manager didn’t have big league managerial experience either, and the one before him didn’t as well.

    #188405
    bccran
    Participant

    True, gscottar. But I believe the comment was about who Ollie was bringing in to relieve him. The comment was very out of character for Waino.

    #188406
    1982 willie
    Participant

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    Well waino was proved right in my opinion if he did say what was said. We don’t really have a manager in my opinion. He’s just a figure head. He’s definitely not a leader.

    #188407
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    No good Manager would take a job where he had little say on his players. Or had to manage a certain way.

    #188408
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I think that nearly all pitchers nowadays have little motivation to throw more than 100 pitches in a game. Many of them think that, if they get through 6 innings, they’ve earned their millions for that day and that now they’re entitled to go back to the dugout and enjoy the rest of their day. What happens next in the game is somebody else’s problem. Wainwright and a few other hardened veterans are exceptions. Guys like that want the win.

    I don’t understand the criticism of Marmol when his team is in first place. LaRussa routinely left pitchers in the game too long, and the win became a loss. Then, in his postgame meeting with writers, he would come up with some lame reason that he made up for doing what he did. I hated that.

    Personally, I like having a manager who sincerely works with a front office and respects the inpu that a front office generates from data that it gathers. LaRussa and Schildt were not like that. Matheny was, and still is, clueless about managing a baseball team, IMO.

    I guess what I’m saying is that I like having honest teamwork between the front office management and the on field management. I believe that most managers think that the responsibility for a win on the field is theirs, and theirs alone. It’s a mistake to think that, IMO.

    #188411
    gscottar
    Participant

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    McFarland would not have been coming into the game had we had the lead. The problem is only we have three good relievers out of eight. The front office is to blame for that not the manager.

    #188416
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    I’m blaming both the manager and the front office. Where a team is in the standings doesn’t always have anything to do with the managers faults.

    #188417
    bccran
    Participant

    Maybe Hicks should be in the bullpen, along with Woodford. That would give you Helsley, Gallegos, Cabrera, and Hicks to close games out. Woodford in middle relief.

    #188418
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Sounds right to me there bccran

    #188429
    mudville
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Sounds right to me, also. Plus, you would hope that the front office could trade for another really good reliever given the prospects this organization has. Of course, it takes two to tango, and if no other organization has a reliever that they would trade, then we just have to win with the players we have.

    #188452
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    What cran said

    #188468
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    For the 1000th time – THE MANAGER DOES NOT SET THE ROSTER.

    So, is this a criticize the front office thread or a criticize the manager thread?

    Hire Joe Maddon! Hire Joe Girardi! Hire anyone fired by another team! Sheesh!

    #188483
    bccran
    Participant

    It’s not a criticize the front office or criticize the manager thread. It’s just posters kicking around ideas.

    #188484
    1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The Cardinals would not have given Ollie the job if they did not think he was qualified. The Cardinals generally like to promote from within if they believe they an internal candidate. Have there been growing pains – sure. However, on the balance, I cannot say I have been disappointed with the job he has done.

    As stated before, the manager does not build the roster. He tries to figure out how to win with what he has … and he is winning.

    #188488
    bccran
    Participant

    It’s too early to cast judgement on the new manager. But there is the point that the last several managers to help win a WS for the Cards weren’t inexperienced and didn’t come from within.

    #188490
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    A playoff run rests on the shoulders of Flaherty, Liberatore or Pallante plus O’Neill returning to form. Having to rely on Matz and Hicks is very iffy. This is a good ball team with or without them. Gorman is doing what most expected of the rookie. Donovan has added a spark but will he keep it up through September?

    The “experts” shouldn’t take this team lightly. I think that they are taking notice and are waking up to the Card’s hustle and power. Keeping our guys off the IL… a major factor.

    As for Marmol, best not for me to say. Bottom line the team is winning and improving… and most are happy.

    #188491
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    One would imagine that at a similar age or amount of managerial experience, skippers such as Walter Austin, TLR or Whitey Herzog, had their doubters from quality baseball minds like Cranny too. I couldn’t imagine that not being the situation with as green as he is. It makes for good discussion and reading though. Please carry on.

    #188493
    Cardinal in France
    Participant

    Free

    Gee, if a guy can’t pick on the manager where is he to get his fun? I thought that’s what managers were for.

    #188494
    bccran
    Participant

    That’s part of it, CIF. It’s been sport ever since the game began to second guess the manager. And to second guess the GM. Makes for lively and create discussion among avid fans.

    #188495
    kscardfan
    Participant

    Free

    Winning is a good starting point in marmol’s favor. In game decisions have been rather questionable, imo. The Pujols/Yadi experience has made his a different season. So that does force some extra problems that other Managers don’t have to deal with. Play Hererra today.

    #188505
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The team is in first place so both the manager and front office deserve a certain amount of credit. The lineup is much deeper than last year and the rotation is starting to solidify. The back end of the bullpen is solid but the weak link of the team is middle relief and it is a pretty big weak link. The blame for that is squarely on the front office. Marmol can’t use the same three guys over and over during a 162 game season.

    As I have said before the Cardinals are very good at drafting and developing and pulling off the occasional offseason blockbuster trade but when it comes to signing free agents they are very bad. Here is the 2022 WAR for each of Mo’s offseason acquisitions:

    Brooks: minus .2
    McFarland: minus .7
    Wittgren: minus .3
    Verhagen: minus .3
    Pujols: minus .1
    Dickerson: minus .5

    Mo’s offseason has racked up a negative 2.1 WAR so far this year so it appears to me that Mo is being bailed out by Ollie Marmol, Randy Flores, and Gary LaRocque.

    #188547
    gscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    And of course I forgot the crown jewel of Mo’s off-season class, Steven Matz, who clocks in at minus .5 WAR as we begin his 4 year $44M journey. That brings the total to negative 2.6, not good.

    #188549
    1982 willie
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    People can defend the manager all they want. People forget we were a playoff team last year. Sure it took a big run to get there but that team was about what we are. Good enough to win the division if the brewers don’t improve themselves and we stay healthy. But we could finish in second, right now I wouldnt say we are much better than the brewers. I give us the offensive edge but I give them the pitching edge. I do think the front office has let the team down but so has either the inexperience of marmol or the fact he’s a bad situational manager.

    #188553
    bccran
    Participant

    Some have said that we’re lucky to be in the NL Central. Losing 8 out of 10 to the Rays, Mets, and the BoSox seems to highlight that.

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