Let's Rebuild the Cardinals

Home The Cardinal Nation Forums Open Forum Let's Rebuild the Cardinals

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 63 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #101362
    stlcard25stlcard25
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    You may be right, Gscottar. I guess I’d like to keep him as he seems unaffected by his role, unlike others. If I knew that Shildt wouldn’t play him every day I guess I’d feel more confident but he hasn’t started much from his set lineups this year.

    Also, in my scenario…Carlson is traded. It would be nice to keep him but you have to give up elite prospects to get elite players.

    #101380
    AvatarPugsleyAddams
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Is Fagalde the real deal?

    A blue chipper if there ever was, CardsInChiTown! It’s amazing that almost everyone of us here on this board had more distinguished high school baseball careers than Alexander “The Great”. Alex went a grand total of 8 1/3 innings in high school, yielding 7 runs on 13 hits. And he didn’t hit a lick either. He has improved some since then. He’s ML ready now.

    #101407
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    to be honest, I don’t think most of the people on this board would be ok with an actual rebuild. an actual rebuild would require us to go through some years where we have no shot of making the playoffs from opening day pitch. I went through the seventies and early nineties, so im fine with losing if there is a light up ahead. lots of people including ownership think we are just one hot streak or one hot bat from being there. if being there means being a middling team with a shot to make the playoffs then maybe at best. but that shouldn’t be our goal. the dodgers and the astros, that’s the kind of team we should be striving for and we are a ways from that.

    #101411
    Avatar858booyah
    Participant

    Free

    They won’t commit to a full rebuild. That would admit failure by our hard headed VP OPS, ownership and director of scouting.

    Plain and simple they don’t have enough consistent offensive performers. I mean look at the Cubs as an example of what we need

    The rotation is ok but needs a veteran starter. The bullpen needs a one year stop gap closer which we likely won’t pay for in $$$ and years.

    A new manager wouldn’t be a bad idea either but they’ll never go outside as long as you know who heads up the operations. I predict Clapp ends up the next manager by next July if things don’t change.

    If they could be rid of Carpenter and Fowler’s contract and eat half or more of each ones deal that would be the best thing towards a rebuild. Even if it’s a bad contract swap it would be best.

    #101422
    AvatarBob
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Stubby as manager should happen.
    The cards need change, not total rebuild.
    Out with the old, in with the new.

    Give guys like Edman, Sosa, Woodford, Gomber, Arozarena a shot at playing… can’t be any
    worse than whats going on now.
    The team needs more consistency, and less drama.!

    #101486
    AvatarJames Mitan
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    I would like to see Fowler coming off the bench… I would prefer to see him gone to open up room for Arozarena, Thomas, Garcia, O’Neill. IMO these guys can all do as well or better than Fowler who is ML average or worse. I know money plays into this, but if you make a mistake and pay someone, you need to move on. Give the young guys a chance… see who can really play.

    Arozarena really deserves a chance and doesn’t need to be blocked by a guy we made a mistake with and have money wrapped up in…

    #101487
    AvatarJames Mitan
    Participant

    Paid - Three Months

    And add in Bader… He is Gold Glove worthy. Is this year just a slump or can he hit well enough to play everyday. I think we need to determine who can play so we know what we have going forward. Fowler, just because he makes alot, does not deserve to play over more talented players. All of those players listed are better than Fowler. By playing Fowler you are just doubling the problem of signing him. Pay hit fine, but don’t exacerbate the problem by playing your 25th man.

    #101495
    Avatar14NyquisT
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    FO rarely admits mistakes. Fowler is the biggest and most costly mistake. Go from there.

    #101504
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    James Mitan wrote:

    I would prefer to see him gone to open up room for Arozarena, Thomas, Garcia, O’Neill.

    Welcome, James!

    This season, Fowler is a league-average offensive player (99 OPS+). They might be hoping his value has rebounded enough that they would have to eat less salary when trading him away during the off-season. Time will tell if that happens, though. (Since the July 31 deadline has passed, he cannot be traded now.)

    #101505
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The Cardinals almost never admit a mistake. In recent years they have eaten some money to players that had less than a year to go, such as Wigginton, Broxton, Holland and Gregerson. The only multi year contract they have partially eaten was Leake, and ironically, I didn’t think that was even necessary. I would love to have him as our 4th or 5th starter right now. He is a good innings eater.

    #101506
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    They ate $17 million plus international cap money for Leake. That is not trivial. He was not a good fit on the team so they felt they had to move him.

    #101507
    Avataratripleshyofthecycle
    Participant

    Free

    They ate $17 million plus international cap money for Leake. That is not trivial. He was not a good fit on the team so they felt they had to move him.

    And, in hindsight, even that was a mistake.

    #101508
    AvatarCardsFanInChiTown
    Participant

    Free

    Pugs, “He’s improved “some” since then, he’s ML ready now!”

    That’s an instant classic post!!

    #101516
    AvatarRememberDiz
    Participant

    Free

    I think I made it clear that I expect losing years, whether we rebuild or not. It makes little difference whether we finish third and miss the playoffs or fifth and miss the playoffs. Take the hit.

    #101517
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    They ate $17 million plus international cap money for Leake. That is not trivial. He was not a good fit on the team so they felt they had to move him.

    I didn’t say it was trivial. I said that in my opinion it was unnecessary.

    Saying he wasn’t a fit is also an opinion. I would take him over Wacha any day.

    #101519
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Well, I did not make up what I wrote, but believe what you want to believe. To that end, please share what your sources told you why they ate $17 million and traded away Leake for essentially nothing in the middle of a playoff race.

    #101520
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Well, I did not make up what I wrote, but believe what you want to believe. To that end, please share what your sources told you why they ate $17 million and traded away Leake for essentially nothing in the middle of a pennant race.

    I am not sure what you are getting at.

    Let me repeat myself. IN MY OPINION it was not necessary to move Leake. Obviously the FO had a different opinion. IT IS MY OPINION that whatever troubles he was causing in the clubhouse couldn’t have been as bad as watching Wacha get bombed every fifth day.

    This discussion centered around how often the Cardinals eat contracts, which is the only reason Leake’s name was mentioned. I didn’t know he was such a sensitive subject to you.

    #101522
    Brian WaltonBrian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I understand the disconnect now. Thanks for explaining. You meant that Leake was not a fit was the team’s opinion, not that my reporting it was my opinion. So, let’s move on.

    The question on the table going forward is whether they will feel a motivation to move current contracts such as Fowler and Carpenter.

    #101523
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    That is indeed the question. My guess is that it won’t happen in 2020 but possibly could happen before or during 2021. Dealing Carp before next season would seem to be an admission of a big mistake and that is not their style.

    #101529
    AvatarMinuteman3
    Participant

    Free

    This board would blow up completely if the Cardinals went into a total rebuild. Are you prepared to dwell in the NLC cellar for 3 seasons and then maybe creep up to 4th or 3rd place for a year or two an then MAYBE contend for a playoff space? That would be the best way I can think of to empty out Busch and Ballpark Village during games. Maybe the Blues would like to play some outdoor hockey there – it only took them 50 years to get to the top. Continue to humor me……….LOL

    #101530
    Avatargscottar
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Getting rid of Carp or Fowler would not constitute a rebuild in my opinion. It would mean were getting rid of mildly productive players in search of players that are more productive.

    But to answer your question a rebuild doesn’t scare me. I have stated many times that a “mini rebuild” like the Yankees did in 2016 is exactly what this teams need. It has nothing to do with a complete tear down and go in last place for five years like the Astros and Cubs did. I don’t know why everyone always equates the term rebuild with the Houston and Chicago scenario. There are other ways to do it and New York proved it.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Avatargscottar.
    #101536
    Avatarmspaid
    Participant

    Look, there will never be a blow things up and rebuild. Junior is a weak baseball man but a brilliant businessman. He bought the team for a song and now it is a billion dollar business. He doesn’t care about metrics advanced or otherwise. He doesn’t care who the manager is and he doesn’t care what the fans think. He cares about ONE thing…3.4. If they sell 3.4 every year there will be a LARGE profit.
    Rebuilding will see 3.4 drop to 2.7 or who knows how low. If they keep nearly everyone and tweak every year, they’ll always be around in September and who knows if a miracle might happen sometime. It’s like throwing a life preserver to someone in the ocean but there’s no rope attached to it. They can hang on and not drown but they’ll never get anywhere. That’s the Cardinals..they’ll usually make a move in the off-season but only one. They put on the brakes and that guarantees perpetual mediocrity. But…no rebuild.

    #101537
    BlackHillsCardBlackHillsCard
    Participant

    Free

    To even move the Carp contract (I still can’t get over what rationale propelled them to extend him) they will have to throw in a prospect and eat some of that money. I don’t see any team taking him off our hands. Fowler’s got that NTC and I’m not sure how the Cardinals are even wanting to move him after publicly coming out in support of him in the past offseason and the way he’s bounced back.

    #101551
    Avatar1982 willie
    Participant

    Free

    rebuilding isn’t tanking. you can still have a somewhat competitive team while rebuilding. first you have to have a plan far as who you are definitely keeping, who you are definitely getting rid of, and those who you might keep but you might trade if you can get what you want in return. plus you have to decide priorities far as getting new players, do you want to prioritize pitching or offense. for me we need to get a solid five starters then look at other options. you can still compete day to day with that but your competing with the knowledge that things will improve and you can build a team that can go on a five year run or more and be a perennial favorite. right now from top to bottom, I feel we are just reading water.

    #101630
    Avatar1964cards
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Black Hills, I agree. I see no easy way of unloading those two contracts.

Viewing 25 posts - 26 through 50 (of 63 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

First-hand news and commentary on the St. Louis Cardinals™ and their minor league system for 20 years