July 31, 2017 at 10:56 am #29169
… Also depends on how full they think the 40 will be etc.
Catch is they need a true dump… Which would clear spots.
I stand by what I said that they could deal 7-10 guys and keep relative depth and skill levels.
…And yet they wont do it.
/shrugs… This team and management have officially stagnated.July 31, 2017 at 11:18 am #29171
By extending Lynn – are you talking about giving him a QO and watching him leave with the Cardinals getting a post second round pick, or are you talking about having him sign a multi-year deal?
As for you comment about poster’s mindsets versus front office – do you do competitive intelligence? Do you ever have to interpret what competitors are doing based on what’s in the news, your recent head-to-head sales competitions with them, who they’ve hired or what patents they’ve filed? It’s the same thing as reading a front office. You look for patterns in their behavior, you look at market signals, you look at what you know about their sales.
Cardinals fans are still flocking to the gates this season, so there is no reason to tell them the Cardinals are punting on the season by trading Lynn. That is your indicator on sales.
The front office is resistant to change – as evidenced by the fact that they rarely do trades, almost never do blockbusters, have only once traded multiple prospects for a star player and just got rewarded with promotions. That is your pattern of behavior.
Have you read the P-D articles where Lynn said he is not going anywhere? Where Pham said they are still in contention? Even yesterday, teams were unsure of whether the Cardinals would even sell Lynn, and by starting Lynn yesterday, the Cardinals indicated they would not. Those are your market signals.
At this point in the season, there are only two approaches that make sense: Sell or Hold.
Selling may adversely affect the clubhouse and ticket sales.
Worst case with keeping Lynn is you get a post-second round pick. Best case with selling Lynn is you get a Top 100 MiLB prospect.
Is that a big enough difference to risk the dropoff in ticket sales or angering some of your players? Probably not. Is the difference big enough to impact your future ability to win a WS? Maybe.
The reality is, the front office punted on the season before it began. They didn’t try to get the BEST center fielder available, they went and got one where they only had to give up money. They didn’t try to get a STAR 3B, they went into the season announcing a “competition” between Peralta (who was abysmal last year) and Gyorko (a career backup), that was never a competition at all. They didn’t try to get a star SS, they “hoped” Diaz would improve to be an “average” SS and his hitting would justify his playing there. They didn’t try to upgrade over Grichuk, knowing that he struggled with staying in the lineup last year due to contact issues, they just moved him to LF, for a defensively inferior CF, which makes NO sense, whatsoever.
Where were the defensive improvements they spent all offseason talking about? Where was the focus on better base running?
Remember, everyone thought the Cubs were a juggernaut and were going to run away with the division. Nobody knew the Cubs weren’t going to start playing like a championship team until after the All-Star break.
You can’t really blame the front office for not going all-in on this year given the disparity in talent between the Cubs and the Cardinals, but if you are going to build for a title run in 2019, the smart move now is to sell what assets you can and get the biggest returns possible.
The moves that got Mozeliak and Girsch promotions were staying the course.July 31, 2017 at 11:21 am #29172
I agree there’s a serious possibility of stagnation.
And competing in this mediocre (at best) division this season increases the likelihood of management not being decisive either way. Any other division and it’s clear that significant changes need to be made. But management can say that they just swept competitive Colorado and split the series with competitive Arizona so see how close we are. (I happen to think that’s a mirage.)
Re re-signing Lynn – I don’t follow the markets much but am very concerned about the rotation going forward. Martinez isn’t reliable enough for a #1. Wainwright will never be Waino again. Wacha’s health. Leake is up and down. Lynn is a known commodity that I wish had the Leake contract instead of Leake. But he doesn’t.July 31, 2017 at 11:29 am #29173
the Fact remains this FO has zero clue how to put together a team or even hire a manager with a brainJuly 31, 2017 at 1:13 pm #29181
Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - AnnualJuly 31, 2017 at 1:31 pm #29182
Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
And Rome burns while the FO fiddles.No risk no reward.Only a true optimist really thinks this team is a serious contender.The 2017 model definitely needs to be overhauled………..running on a wing and hope only goes so far.July 31, 2017 at 1:39 pm #29184
Need clarification re the Cleveland tweet and an outfielder – do they mean St Louis obtaining an outfielder or trading one? Sure hope it’s the latter because we have enough stinkin’ outfielders!!!July 31, 2017 at 1:46 pm #29185
Looks like MO and company doing what they do best, sit on their hands and do nothingJuly 31, 2017 at 1:51 pm #29186
I read that as Cleveland wanting outfielders fwiw
July 31, 2017 at 2:40 pm #29189
- This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by Brianpnoonan.
Mo is out on a golf course, he had a noon tee time since he knew he wouldn’t do something to help the club long term.July 31, 2017 at 3:02 pm #29190
What is new this clueless front office continues to show rest of baseball just how stupid they are….good lord need to just clean the whole front office clowns out and get some people with brains in there….and they can take our butt hurt manager with them…July 31, 2017 at 3:05 pm #29191
We need a new FO.July 31, 2017 at 3:14 pm #29192
Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - AnnualJuly 31, 2017 at 3:22 pm #29194
Lol I will roast them some other day. More important things to do.July 31, 2017 at 3:39 pm #29202
gscottarParticipantPaid - Annual
Our FO stinks!July 31, 2017 at 3:47 pm #29205
thejagerParticipantPaid - Annual
Well it isnt like we will lose him for nothing in the offseason..a compensation pick between 2 and 3 at the worst is not terrible…
heaven forbid we actually really like Lynn…and want to re-sign him…he is pitching pretty phenomenally and is only 30
then use our young pitching talent at the height of it’s value to go out and get that big bat we need.. i’d think the Marlins would be quite interested in our young starting pitching as they are quite thin there…maybe even revisit the Freddie Freeman possibility with the BRaves still needing starting pitching… maybe even the good old Reds are desperate for pitching….could the unthinkable happen and we target Votto?
If we go into the offseason with these top notch starting pitching prospects and package them right we could get a lot of value back…
Lynn slots in next year just fine, with Reyes coming back slowly and probably being the help the bullpen needs for a year before taking Waino’s or Wacha’s spot..
Heck…with a good finish to the year for Wacha…he coudl command big time value with ihis control and age if we want to move him…
not doing anything now though i think really forces this offseason to be active in trading and maybe even buying…if we make the postseason..it lessen the pressure a bit..but not much….
we have some serious 40 man decisions to make as well..
To me…a trade or two to clear up the 40man a little and help the team now woudl have let some of the pressure to fix it all in the offseason go away…but now they are in fix it or get fired mode for this offseason period…. which to me is just a terrible position to be in with the market having nothing for hitters…cmbined with the fact that the Cubs are in their prime years for low salary and big output…which means they can go out and spend a lot on their problems….forcing us to be in a position to fix it NOW…whiel they are in their best years is just setting them up for a letdown..
I believe in the process and the way they have built the organization…i believe they have a plan and i believe their track record gives them the benefit of the doubt for seeing it through…
I feel like we may deal at the waiver trade deadline too…there are some players that i think wont get pulled back who coudl help if we want them…. Bruce? Cozart (yes i know he is hurt)? both could be useful right now and not cost us much… problem is that if we wait on those deals we get even less back even if they do well for us..
blah blah blah….crazy dayJuly 31, 2017 at 4:04 pm #29210
Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
I think it would be pretty dumb to trade some of the near ready pitchers and re-sign the 30 year Lynn.Agree with you that it puts pressure on the slumbering FO to actually wake up and do something to help this team in the offseason.
You would have
all competing for 5 spots.July 31, 2017 at 4:05 pm #29211
No they don’t have a clue what the heck they are doing and they are proving it to everybody in baseball right now. They conceded the division to the Cubs by doing nothing to help now and they left themselves in 40 man heck and didn’t help them add assets for the future. As for Lynn hey have made it clear they are not going to resign him by his comments so thus whoohoo a pick after the second round what a joke this org has become.July 31, 2017 at 4:20 pm #29212
Correct me if I’m wrong but they only get a pick if they offer him a qualifying offer of around 18 to 18.5 million for one season and he rejects it. And all indications are they don’t plan to do that. So this pick is most likely mythical at this point and won’t happen. If they don’t offer and he walks or they don’t sign him to a new deal then this day will be nothing short of a complete failure of leadership from the front office. I don’t see any other way to describe it.
July 31, 2017 at 4:31 pm #29215
- This reply was modified 1 year, 10 months ago by TexasCard.
I haven’t seen a report indicating St Louis wouldn’t offer Lynn a QO at season’s end. Possible that I missed it.
Goold has a very good article re how organizational control of the potential tradee impacts the trade return.
Goold: What on-the-go Garcia tells us about Cards and trade deadline
I want this team improved as badly as any Cardinals fan in existance. I’m disappointed that nothing was done to improve the team at the trade deadline.
But I also realize I have zero idea what was being offered. And I know that I root for a team whose ownership and management team rarely make risky moves. That’s just who they are. Can’t live with that? Let your wallet do the talking and they may listen then.July 31, 2017 at 9:30 pm #29226
One of the baseball analysts tweeted that he didn’t think the Cardinals would extend a QO because they wouldn’t want to get stuck paying $18 million per year to LynnJuly 31, 2017 at 9:33 pm #29227
If that was the case …
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