- This topic has 51 replies, 20 voices, and was last updated 2 years, 11 months ago by
.
-
Posts
-
#11 and #15?????
Mo gave up a quality starting MLB pitcher and another reliever and DID NOT EVEN GET ONE OF THEIR TOP TEN PROSPECTS?????
What rhymes with geese?
Starting pitcher with 2 months left on his contract. And Boros as his agent. And a mediocre reliever. The Cards did fine.
Well we got 11 and 15 prospects from a team that has before this year been pretty bad for a long while which means they have been able to get pretty high picks in the draft so their 11 and 15 would be a lot different than ours potentially anyway. I think we did ok being we could lose Monty for nothing if we didn’t trade him.
Couple of snippets from the Athletic on the Rangers players
Montgomery was one of the best starting pitchers on the trade market, and as a result he netted the Cardinals two very good prospects plus a big-league reliever. Infielder Thomas Saggese has taken a significant step forward at the plate this year with a .314/.380/.514 line for Double-A Frisco as a 21-year-old, already matching his career high in homers.
Saggese alone would be a nice return for two months of Montgomery, but the Cards also got right-hander Tekoah Roby, who was pushing to become the Rangers’ top pitching prospect until he hit the injury list in early June with a shoulder issue. Prior to that, he was 92-96 mph with a plus changeup, 50/55 slider, and a yakker of a curveball that he started throwing way more often than the slider, presumably because it was so effective.
https://theathletic.com/4734321/2023/07/30/st-louis-cardinals-trade-deadline-sellers/
This year Roby has been out with a shoulder injury since early June. In 2021 he went down in mid June with an elbow strain and didn’t pitch again that season. He has not had TJ at any point yet.
So basically, we shouldn’t count on anything there. If he works out its a bonus.
So we got the infield prosect and the ML reliever out of the deal.
Saggese has been very productive at the plate every year.
At 19 in Low-A he had a 127 OPS+.
In High-A at age 20 it was again 127.
And this year in AA at 21 it was 133. (He won’t be 22 until next April, by the way.)
Young for every level. Highly successful at every level.Mozeliak compared him to Brendan Donovan which is partly true, partly not. They do appear to be extremely similar in terms of defensive versatility and baserunning. But Donovan has vastly superior plate discipline markers, and Saggese more pop but also more swing ‘n miss. So it’s more like a hybrid of Donovan & Gorman as a profile. Obviously that’s a very strong prospect.
The only reason Saggese isn’t a consensus top 100 guy is that he was drafted in the 5th round rather than 1st. Problem is, people are frequently narrow-minded dolts and thus they have an exceptionally difficult time evaluating someone who outperforms his draft position so profoundly. It makes their heads hurt so they pretend the performance isn’t real.
they have an exceptionally difficult time evaluating someone who outperforms his draft position so profoundly. It makes their heads hurt so they pretend the performance isn’t real.
This should not be surprising at all, Bob. We continuously see examples of the converse in action. Where poor and uneven performance by a first rounder does not seem to register. Hype, or lack thereof, seems like it takes many years to wear off.
A couple other things to mention. First, I would be a bit hesitant to fit someone for a red jacket based upon their results in the Texas League, however impressive they may be. The second thing is just to mention that Saggese seems to be closer to Edman in physical stature than to Donovan or Gorman. That is just based upon published height and weight.
Roby (AA) –
ERA – 5.05
WHIP – 1.23
IP – 46
H – 49
K – 50
W – 12Was rated the #1 pitcher in the Rangers system, until slowed by shoulder and elbow issues. If he can heal well, he could be a potential top of the rotation guy.
King (MLB) –
ERA – 5.79
WHIP – 1.60
IP – 19
Hit – 26
K – 10
W – 4Throw in to clear a space on the Rangers 40 man.
Pretty much a non-entity.Saggese (AA – 2B/3B)
.314/.380/.514/.894
16 home runs
78 RBIReally intriguing. Versatile, like Donovan. I really like this one. He was given the “True Ranger” award for being the best influence throughout the entire system both on and off the field. Award is given for being a good teammate and good community steward. Throw-back player – doesn’t wear gloves, plays all out.
Where would this team be without Mozeliak? He did a fantastic job evaluating the team’s pitching for 2023. Now he is outdoing himself by getting all those prospects that without a doubt will be all steals based on how good they will be. You have to hand it to him the man never makes a wrong move. If things don’t work out is not his fault ever. He’s a keeper.
Oliver, the thing you have to remember is Mo doesn’t work for us. His job to make money for the owners.
Blurbs found on the MLB Trade Rumors site:
Thomas Saggese
Saggese doesn’t have the physical traits evaluators crave, but he makes up for it with a hard-nosed playstyle. Part of the Jordan Montgomery trade, it feels like he was always destined to join the Cardinals. His tools draw a collection of 40 and 50 grades, but his feel for quality contact allows the total package to play up. Multiple reports reference his success against sliders. Something to watch is how he performs against upper-level pitchers with big fastballs and command. The Cardinals might seek to add corner outfield to Saggese’s bag of tricks. He fits best at third base, is considered too short for first base, and just passes at second base. The Cards love their role players to possess a deep well of utility.
Tekoah Roby, STL (21): The prospect headliner of the Montgomery trade, Roby has a four-pitch repertoire of above-average offerings. His best weapon is a double-plus curve ball. He’s currently sidelined with a shoulder injury. There’s relief risk for health reasons only – the stuff and command are sufficient to project a mid-rotation role.
Saggese has an “odd” load in his swing and his bat tends go load towards the pitcher, things that can be worked out. His bat is REALLY quick though and lead to success to this point and ability to generate power from a smaller stature and get the bat to the ball. Getting a few kinks worked out against quality pitching and strike zone discipline will probably be necessary and determine if hes a utility player or everyday player. I like his versatility and “grit”, if he’s able to be a SS substitute though would really add to his value to the team.
Roby’s health and development are going go be key to the trade being successful though.Roby’s health and development are going go be key to the trade being successful though.
Roby missed most of 2021 with elbow trouble, (but didn’t have surgery). Now he has missed a chunk of 2023 with shoulder trouble. Assuming he gets back on the mound, every outing will potentially be his last.
I’ve seen the reports on all the new guys and its unusual for me to not have a strong opinion as many of you can atest, so what I like about the trades is this: if the Cards simply just kept these guys until the end of the season and gave them qualifying offers, at most you’re getting 2 draft picks. However, these trades netted us 5 lottery tickets.
Isn
t the Qo around 19-20 million? I dont feel Montgomery or Flaherty are worth that.Makng the offer in the hope that it would be rejected is the type of risk that usually blows up in the Cards face.I liked Montgomery but 19-20 million is too much IMHO.I think i prefer taking a chance with the young arms.IMHO this gives Liberatore,Hudson,Thompson and maybe Graceffo and McGreevey a 2 month period to show what they can do.After reading up on these new prospects I like the returns the Cardinals have received. None of them will probably have much impact in St. Louis in 2024 but definitely could by 2025.
The thing about Flaherty is whenever he’s pitched at a high level his arm goes out. I think he spent a lot of time and effort trying to figure out how to be effective pitching in a way his arm could tolerate better, but wasn’t having any luck. Lately he’s doing what he has to do to get a payday. Who wouldn’t. Nothing unethical about putting your best foot forward. Worry about the arm once the ink is dry. If he comes back on a QO we will be counting on him to fill a front half of rotation slot. We’d be asking for trouble.
Monty pitched a quality start and got the win in his Rangers debut yesterday. He’s probably happy to be playing for a more functional organization heading into contract time. Its a better look, especially if he gets some post season exposure.
The present injury is shoulder inflammation. He has had one injury after the next in his pro career. That includes an elbow injury that had him out much of 2021. Published reports from back then say TJ was a possibility, but he didn’t have surgery. So that’s probably in his future at some point. I didn’t see anything on bone spurs specifically.
Pitchers are almost never the same after significant shoulder trouble. And it almost never goes away for good.
Thinking of him as a top prospect is fanciful at this point. But he was a #1 prospect before the injury parade, so reality isn’t asserting itself yet. It’s one of those Emperor has no clothes things.
- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.