Fire Schildt? Yes or No?

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  • #167844
    bccran
    Participant

    If Schildt is in trouble, it’s only because he’s starting to show cracks in his demeanor both in post game interviews and on the field.

    #167846
    gscottar
    Participant

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    Shildt led the Cardinals to the 2019 NLCS. Was that team dramatically more talented than this one? No it wasn’t but it had more depth and wasn’t hit quite as hard with injuries. Perhaps the message has become stale, I don’t know, but my guess is that this roster was just not fortified as strongly as it needed to be.

    I would have no problem canning Albert and Maddux though.

    #167847
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    I agree with you completely, gscottar. I think you hit the nail on the head. Shildt is a decent manager. Maybe not the best in the game, but we can win with him. I think Maddux and Albert are in hot water, and rightfully so.

    #167848
    bccran
    Participant

    I’ve seen Shildt in person at a lunch and he’s like a mild mannered reporter. Then you see him in the locker room video, in the confrontation with a reporter during
    a post game interview, and his conflicts recently with umpires, you have to wonder who the real Mike Shildt is….laid back, tiger, or paper tiger.

    #167849
    SoonerinNC
    Participant

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    I don’t think I have a problem with Maddux unless his program is leading to the excessive injuries. The control problem with the young pitchers is inconsistency in repeating deliveries and trying to do too much and overthrowing, which is a problem the world over with young pitchers.

    I find it hard to be critical of Shildt’s game management when prior to the meltdown against the Cubs he had not lost a game this season that we entered the 9th with a lead.

    Part of our young relievers problems could stem from the poor offensive support which causes a lot of stress situations.

    #167850
    SoonerinNC
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    So far Shildt has a track record of a strong second half. Going to be very strong this season as far as we are out of the wild card.

    #167853
    bccran
    Participant

    Let’s see how things are when we get some key players back.
    If you’re designed to win with pitching and defense, and
    your pitching has medical hiccups, you’re going to struggle.
    Getting players back sometimes makes a manager look much smarter.

    #167855
    PugsleyAddams
    Participant

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    As hard as it may be to believe, Shildt may actually find great comfort in getting the pink slip. I was fired several times, before finally going into business for myself, and almost every time I didn’t mind the experience. I wonder if Shildt has ever even been fired once in his life?……quick story. We all vividly recall our first time getting the ax. Mine was the summer of my high school graduation year in Solon. I went to work with my best buddy at his father’s company. General Metal Heat Treating was located in the belly of the beast of Cleveland, Ohio. Mike and I would go out EVERY night drinking and chasing young ladies until the wee hours….and then get up a few hours later with a raging headache. Mike’s father, always attired in suit and tie, drove us into work with him each morning. Mr. Torok was not a person to mess with. Though the car was immensely comfortable, the seemingly long ride in was nothing short of pure hell. He listened to nothing but the news and we just wanted to catch a little snooze, but he insisted that we both sit up straight and not slouch or God forbid doze off. The real hell started once we got there. I suppose the intense heat of that facility might have been fairly nice in January, but in June it was horrible. Dust, smoke and heat everywhere. OSHA would have had a field day with that place these days. You’d be in that place for 10 minutes and when you’d spit, it’s color was pitch black. Anyway, to make a long story short, Mike and I didn’t work out very well in the testing department, so we were both handed sickles and were told that our job for the summer was to hack down this huge field of weeds outside. So each and every day for the next 3 weeks when we arrived for work, we’d head straight outside to the back of the factory where we’d lounge with our backs to the wall by the railroad tracks and sleep, eat a snack or two and talk about taking grandiose trips out west to Arizona and California. Then one morning out there by the tracks with my buddy fast asleep and me reading the morning sports section, I heard his father’s riveting words “working hard boys”. That was my first firing. His father is still alive and in his 90’s and my friend’s two brothers now run the company. I say keep Shildt for now…..but on a very short leash.

    #167887
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    The next question is why do players go to other teams and perform better.

    The bigger question is why do players come here and then tank or fall short of expectations. You all know the suspects.

    #167888
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

    Paid - Annual

    There has been about a four year stretch now where management has not assessed player potential very well. There is probably a stat somewhere, but the club has given away more wins than they have acquired.

    I thought allowing Kolten Wong to walk was a mistake, and that is looking like the latest in a long line of poor decisions. You pay Matt Carpenter all this money but allow Wong to leave.

    #167889
    stlcard25
    Participant

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    It does seem like some teams are better than others at knowing when to pick up or cut bait on certain players. But oaee of me wonders how much of it is due to the system or perhaps just luck? The Cards had a run there from around 2009 to 2015 where every player they picked up just seemed to have a great season, and the guys they let go rarely seemed to do that wwll. Now we are in the exact opposite situation. Is it cyclical? I don’t know, it’s just speculation.

    #167890
    ZTR
    Participant

    Free

    Yeah, Wong would look pretty good in a Cardinal uniform about now….and they just let him walk….

    #167892
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    In my mind it started around when threy let Lynn walk.

    #167893
    gscottar
    Participant

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    To me things haven’t been the same since 2015, which coincides with the Cubs ascension. That might be a coincidence or maybe it isn’t.

    #168061
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    In my mind it started around when threy let Lynn walk.

    OOOhhhh….. that was a bad one.

    Q: has the Wainwright re-sign helped us more this season than the Arenado acquisition?

    #168066
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Ny asked:

    Q: has the Wainwright re-sign helped us more this season than the Arenado acquisition?

    No.

    Arenado 2.7 fWAR (tops for offense)
    Wainwright 1.9 fWAR (tops among pitchers)

    #168067
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    It’s a tough call…. that’s why I asked what others are thinking. With 40% of our starters on the IL it adds to the importance of Wainwright’s Taking over as our #1 rotation guy.

    Just having Arenado in the lineup and on the field = big plus also.

    The next time we play a division rival that isn’t called the Pirates is on Aug 30th. at CIN for 3.

    #168074
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    Arenado 2.7 fWAR (tops for offense)

    He’s hitting .259

    #168098
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    A relevant fact only to those who find BA more meaningful.

    #168114
    forsch31
    Participant

    Free

    Brian, my only argument to Arenado’s WAR would be that how much of it is due to offense and how much is due to defense?

    #168120
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    I do not understand why it matters. WAR is designed to be total value to the team, which is what the original question seemed to be asking. Arenado’s overall value to the team is greater than Wainwright’s – if you believe the metric.

    And if you take WAR/$, it would be even better thanks to the Rockies playing Arenado’s salary!

    #168121
    blingboy
    Participant

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    Trying to come up with a stat that purports to compare a pitcher’s value to the team with a position player’s value is rubbish. Apples and oranges.

    #168123
    Euro Dandy
    Participant

    Free

    I think Ny’s question is a little more complex than who is providing more overall value to the team based on WAR. WAR is good for general discussions about who is having a better year (especially if the two players are of the same position). I believe Ny’s question would be better stated as who has provided the most net value specifically for the Cards, given how the Cards’ roster has been constructed this season.

    Even if you believe WAR numbers are 100% accurate based on the stated definition, WAR is simply based on some calculated replacement value. Replacement value is not some constant we’re talking about with Ny’s question. Instead we’re talking about substituting specific players on the roster that might be above or below WAR’s “replacement” value for those positions. If Wainwright was not a Card, who would’ve pitched his 125 innings? Somebody less effective than Oviedo? So what is Wainwright’s value above that guy or those guys, whoever he or they are. Same with Arenado. He’s played in all but 3 games I think. I guess that would mean a lot more innings for Sosa/Carp/etc.

    I wonder if forsch is talking about the lower certainty with the defensive side of WAR. Some have less faith in the accuracy of those numbers. Regardless of the accuracy, some debate that defensive position players get too much of the WAR pie for run prevention compared to pitchers, which would slight the pitchers.

    I’m not making a case for either player, just think it was a particularly interesting question (the engineering geek coming out in me). I was curious and looked at the Cards’ record for games Wainwright has played in (11-9) compared to Arenado (49-50). Probably doesn’t mean much!

    #168124
    jj-cf-stl
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    BW, pitcher war and position player war are not of equal value.

    BR currently has awarded 365.8 position player war and 254.8 pitcher war, a 59%/41% split.

    As Euro noted, position players get a share of the defensive war, along with pitchers.

    #168125
    blingboy
    Participant

    Paid - Annual

    The better question might be to what extent is each playing to expectation.

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