Fire Schildt? Yes or No?

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  • #167550
    David
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    I 100% say yes simply because with all our injuries, inconsistent hitting and less than average middle relief to be nice, I’d say at least 10 of our losses has had to do with Schildts late game managements and his use of the starters and the bullpen.

    #167551
    blingboy
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    He might be bad but he is not the problem. Even with a better manager the roster would still be the same. I doubt the W-L record would be too much different. Pitchers would still walk guys and HBP. O’Neill would still take a home run cut with two strikes and us needing a runner. We still wouldn’t have a bench. Our rotation would still be smoke and mirrors. We’d still have nothing in Memphis if a guy goes down. I’m not really in favor of firing a guy if it doesn’t address the problem. If we had a good team, then I’d say go get somebody good to manage them.

    #167561
    bccran
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    No.

    #167578
    ZTR
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    No, I want to see what he does next season.

    I think he does ok but if next year is like this year has been so far then its time to clean house – hard to pin point the issue with all the injuries so you have to clear the deck and start over with coaches / manager.

    #167579
    14NyquisT
    Participant

    The poor acquisitions both signings and trades, plus the worse extensions, plus FO making him play high priced flops, plus the farm system collapse, have put Shildt in position to absorb a lot of criticism. Put the blame where it belongs….. right in Mozeliak’s lap. Who can’t see that.

    #167583
    1982 willie
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    I personally believe shildt should go. I think the players like him but that’s not always a good thing. While I certainly don’t think he is the main problem with this season but I do feel his game management is poor. So even if this year or next we turn it around, we still probably aren’t going to get it done in the big games. I don’t see it happening though I could see a shakeup in the coaching staff particularly the pitching part. Way too many walks and hit batters. The problem with the Cardinals is are we ever going to have enough superior talent because of our lack of spending quality money on quality assets to overcome shildts managing. It took the dodgers a long time and a lot of money to overcome their managers lack of managing skills. If you are trying to not spend money on players, then you better spend money on quality managers and coaches.

    #167585
    blingboy
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    After TLR it seems the FO made the decision to go with in house yes men. Well trained and controllable. There is no reason to expect anything different. No Tony, no Whitey. Nobody that has an idea that didn’t originate upstairs on somebody’s flow chart.

    #167587
    Cardinal in France
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    I agree with Bling. Shildt is not the problem. I don’t believe he is a particularly good manager, but the problem with this team lies elsewhere, several elsewheres, actually.

    #167588
    gscottar
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    I don’t think firing Shildt will make a big difference unless you have a high quality replacement lined up. His tendency to be an extreme company man and overly player friendly is annoying but the real mis-managment comes from above. Too many lousy contracts and misevaluations over the last few years. They add up. Having said that we aren’t a bad team. We are just average.

    The last two managerial hires were unproven guys who were going to fall in line with the front office. The front office didn’t want a strong personality like TLR or Whitey. Whenever it comes time to make a change we need to bring in someone who isn’t afraid to ruffle a few feathers.

    The most likely scenario is that Maddux and Albert are let go at the end of they year and Shildt is put on notice that we had better see marked improvements in 2022, assuming the front office gives him a good enough roster.

    #167594
    jim
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    How many managers would leave themselves in a position of using a pitcher to PH in a one run game in the 9th. After 5 pitches I would have left Cabrera hit for himself instead of the .175 Carpenter. Last 2 losses on Shildt…

    #167595
    bccran
    Participant

    Here’s the problem with this team –

    Hudson
    Flaherty
    Mikolas
    Kim for awhile
    Martinez
    Hicks
    Ponce for awhile
    Miller for awhile

    #167597
    jim
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    Or paying 18 million for a .175 hitter, or a team full of .250 hitters…

    #167600
    Euro Dandy
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    If Mo’s successor has a good hire lined up to take over as manager, I’d be all for it. Anything else is just shuffling the deck.

    #167601
    bicyclemike
    Moderator

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    Shildt does not strike me as a particularly astute manager. His style is similar to his persona – don’t take many risks, keep it low key, stay with a consistent plan.

    If we were the 1950s Yankees or Dodgers and had a powerhouse team, that style would work well. with our club and the changes that have hit the roster, all of the under-performance and inconsistency, I think a more dynamic manager that would be a risk taker would be a better fit.

    But having said that, I do sense we have a good clubhouse and a group of guys that want to win. I keep Shildt around to finish his agreement, but do not offer an extension until I see improvement in 2022. If next year is more of the give away nonsense we are seeing this year, then it will be time to reset on-field management.

    #167731
    David
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    I understand Schildt doesn’t make the pitches, has nothing to do with the hitting but his persona is not fit for a team that needs that kick in the ass and not an it’s okay… you triedpersona .Schildt needs to be on a team that he can just sit there and watch the game and not have any say in the game because all of his decisions are based on hope which would explain how he never seems to have a feel for the game. Isn’t that basically what he did when Matheny was there, just sat at the end of the bench. .5 game behind the reds entering Friday after taking 3/4 from the Cubs, the reds without their best hitter and we come out flat. Thats on the Manager. I’m not saying he’s entirely to blame but there needs to be a change. All teams go thru slumps and injuries during a season… the crew has had them and their hitting is worse than ours as far as Avg. if Counsell and Schildt switched spots, who here on this thread thinks the Crew would have a 9 game lead on the Cards.

    #167753
    Onyxgem
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    Yes the guy is a clueless turd of a manager!

    #167764
    gscottar
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    I wouldn’t classify Shildt as an elite level manager but he has proven that he can win games when given a decent roster. I put more blame on the front office for this team. They didn’t fortify the roster with the proper depth because they had made too many mistakes in the past with the budget and player evaluation. Then when all of the injuries hit we had few viable alternatives to plug in.

    It reminds me when everyone thought Joe Torre was a terrible manager in the early 1990’s. It turns out he wasn’t that bad.

    #167795
    1982 willie
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    Well gscottar a lot of truth to that. But Torre won with a lot of talent so hard to see what he would do with an average team. Most anyone could win if they were given decent talent as compared to competition. A mark of a really good manager is the ability to do more with less. It is true that due to all the injuries and the fact we were weak middle relief wise since the start that I’ll give schildt some leeway. But there are plenty of red flags showing he may not have what it takes. He is a yes man so I figure the FO will give him an extension at end of his contract.

    #167810
    kscardfan
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    To me the problems are many. Schildt is not a good Manager. Mo’s personnel decisions have been bad the last several years. Albert doesn’t seem to be doing much for the hitting. But the biggest problem to me starts with the bullpen and the walks. Not seeing any improvement there. That has to be on Maddox. The solution say goodbye to D: All of the above. As far as who to hire as Manager. Jim Edmonds. He thinks he knows the answers, and maybe he is right. If he is wrong maybe it would shut him up.

    #167813
    blingboy
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    Nothing could shut Edmonds up ks, but funny. Since the MLB team has such problems and the whole system stinks I don’t see it as this guy or that. The whole thing went off the tracks somehow. I know I’m reading about how this was a good draft and how last year’s is looking good. But we say the same every year and obviously we are wrong. I just saw where Mo just found another moldy half eaten sandwich in somebody’s garbage. That’s what it takes when the cupboard is bare.

    #167820
    blingboy
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    I guess I should clarify that my previous comment was not aimed at whoever the latest player scrounged up is. Nothing personal to him, and I wish him good luck. It was meant to reflect the reality of what finding warm bodies to fill the rosters has come down to. A talent acquisition and development train wreck in every sense. How are we supposed to evaluate the job a particular coach is doing under those circumstances. All they can do is sort through the wreckage and try to cobble something together.

    We look at recent drafts and we look at guys in the lower levels and we convince ourselves that whatever the problem was has been righted. Really? Are we seeing what we want to see? What we hope for, rather than reality? I have no idea, but I would like to know what was the problem and what was done to right it? There has been no major shakeup, no about face as to philosophy or process as far as we can tell. Are we thinking whatever it was spontaneously fixed itself?

    #167831
    SoonerinNC
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    I think the #1 problem is Albert. The Cardinals have scored 2 runs or less in 35 of their first 97 games and 3 runs or less in 50 of 97 games. They rank 26th of 30 teams in Runs scored, on base percentage and OPS. They are 22ng in home runs, 24th in walks and slugging. They are not among the top 15 teams in 10 of 12 offensive stats.

    The next question is why do players go to other teams and perform better. The numbers Kelly has at Arizona would rank him 4th in batting average, 1st in on base percentage, 3rd in slugging and 2nd in OPS. Wong would rank 1st in batting average, 1st in on base pct, 3rd in slugging and 2nd in OPS. I know, different ballparks but there has been a consistent trend of position players who didn’t get a shot and went to other teams and accomplished a lot more. Has not happened with the pitchers.

    In 2018 the newly hired Albert got in a conflict with assistant Mark “the Buddha” Budasky resulting to the Cardinals letting Buddha go. The official line was Albert’s approach would take some time to take effect.

    As the guy said in the movie Caddy Shack—WELL, WE ARE WAITING. It has been 4 years of poor inconsistent offense with Albert.

    Seems to me that other teams do not fear our hitters. We are constantly behind 0-2, particularly the young players and Carpenter. We do not do a good job of fouling off marginal pitches with two strikes on the hitter. We seem to swing from the heels on two strikes, again especially the young guys.

    #167840
    bccran
    Participant

    The recent drafts have been good. And the restructuring plus pushing some of our talented guys to higher levels earlier than normal is tamping down the measurements many use to project success. IMHO the system is in much better shape than some think.

    #167842
    Brian Walton
    Keymaster

    Paid - Annual

    Counterpoint. Every other minor league organization had similar restructuring and roster reductions. Why are the Cardinals comparative results consistently among the worst? Why have they gone heavy into signing indy ball pitchers and picking up other teams’ free agents? (And this has nothing to do with Shildt.)

    #167843
    bccran
    Participant

    True, probably belongs on another thread. But my point stands. From what I’ve heard, many of the Cardinals minor leaguers are young for their level.

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