Eight-man pen – Mayers usage

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  • #47842
    BlackHillsCard
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    Hell by the time Mayers gets into an actual game he’ll be rusty. At this point I think we have a better chance of seeing Mujica pitch for the Cards this season than Mayers.

    #47860
    SoonerinNC
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    I checked the other 29 major league teams with at least one game still playing.

    The Cardinals have had two pitchers (Hicks, Bowman) with five appearances; 3 (Leone, Lyons, Norris) with 4 appearances.

    The other 29 teams have had 85 pitchers with 4 appearances, 40 pitchers with 5 appearances and 2 pitchers with 6 appearances.

    17 relief pitchers other than Mayers have only one appearance.

    these numbers are for relief pitchers only. A number of starters have also had only one appearance.

    Looking back, the only game that we were somewhat out of was the opener against the Mets in which Mayers pitched and did not look nearly as overpowering as he did in the spring games. The only other game that we won or lost with more than a 4 run spread was the near complete game by Martinez.

    Not sure there is an early case of overusing anyone or dumping on Mayers. You can look at that way if it is what you want to see but I think it is early to draw those conclusions.

    #47861
    TexasCard
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    It’s more of an eating up roster space on a player that is seldom used. If they aren’t going to use the kid send him down so he can pitch consistently and try to stay sharp and get better. Also call up another bat so your bench is deeper. Just a thought.

    #47891
    PadsFS
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    I’m sure Mayers will be the one going down on Monday with Holland’s return so you all will get your wish.

    #47895
    bicyclemike
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    The most amazing performance of Warren Spahn’s career might be the 16 inning marathon he and Juan Marichal hooked up in when Spahn was over 40. The 1963 game saw both future Hall of Famers throw shutout ball for 15 innings, with the game ending in the bottom of the 16th on a home run by Willie Mays.

    Spahn was something else. One of my favorite all-time pitcher seasons is 1965 Don Drysdale. It was his fourth consecutive year of over 300 innings pitched. He went 23-12 with a 2.77 ERA. He also lead the team in OPS, and hit 7 homers in only 138 plate appearances. The team leader only hit 12 that year (two guys tied with 12, Jim Lefebvre and Sweet Lou Johnson).

    He was sort of an Ohtani before it has become such a big deal this year.

    The ’65 Dodgers almost had a 3-man rotation, with Koufax, Drysdale and Osteen all starting at least 40 games.

    #47910
    Brian Walton
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    They might send Brebbia right back down tomorrow, especially if he pitches today. But one would think that it would only delay Mayers’ return to Memphis with Gregerson so close.

    #48069
    Brian Walton
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    Holland officially activated. Mayers optioned to Memphis.

    Closer Holland Activated by St. Louis, Mayers Optioned Out

    #48241
    Brian Walton
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    I call your eight and raise you one!

    #48246
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    The Marlins are also trying to claim they are a corporate citizen of British Virgin Islands.

    #48250
    gscottar
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    Another stellar move by Jeter. Way to ingratiate yourself with the community!

    #49308
    Brian Walton
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    If anyone here subscribes to the Wall Street Journal, here is the link to an article about the trend to 13-man pitching staffs across MLB.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/as-teams-seek-more-relief-13-man-pitching-staffs-are-the-new-normal-1524059933?mod=e2tws

    #49548
    Cardinals27
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    Now down to 7 relievers, I wonder what happens when Cecil comes off the DL. And maybe Holland figures things out soon. His last outing was better. My concern is that, ,like last year, there were times when Matheny couldn’t trust 2, 3 and sometimes 4 of his relievers, so 4 or 5 got worked much harder. The situation right now is that Holland is not the closer yet and still working things out, and that Cecil has only a small stretch last year where he was good. I would like to see Bowman sent down, and perhaps Brebbia or Mayers up. Keep shuttling them by how effective they are. Perhaps go back to an 8 man bullpen for short periods, although I am not a fan. Another solution would be to upgrade a reliever by making a 2 for 1 trade.

    #49550
    NJ315
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    When Cecil comes back send Bowman down.

    #49551
    Cardinals27
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    Whoever is the managers favorite should have no bearing on the 7 or 8 relievers. Reyes I would think would be getting close to starting a rehab if all is on schedule.

    #49576
    Brian Walton
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    Was Mo being serious? The origin of the nine-man bullpen.

    He did say this winter that “an eight-man pen is in my DNA,” so maybe…

    #49584
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    Flaherty in the Bullpen? Geezus Cripes Mo’s incompetence is front and center with that quote.

    On a side not, Brebbia should have stayed over Bowman. Brebbia has been lights out this season and has out pitched Bowman when given the chance.

    #49590
    14NyquisT
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    That’s a good idea… put Flaherty in the bullpen. The Cards did that with Lance Lynn and it drove me up a wall. It is working with Hicks so far but Flaherty projects as a #1/#2, different animals. Flaherty has the repertoire that makes starters successful, and by the way, why the heck is he still pitching AAA ball. Its not really fair to the league. We are just a small blister away from a Black Jack attack. Like Rare Earth sang “Get Ready”.

    #49600
    bicyclemike
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    I think the future of MLB is going to be 26 man rosters, with 13 pitchers. Someday common sense will prevail over money, as studies will show that the 25 man roster is costing teams dollars by being short-handed resulting in overuse of some players. But if the 26 man roster ever comes to pass, they need to put in a rule that rosters have to be constructed evenly. Like in Monopoly, where you cannot stockpile four houses on one property and one on another, rosters have to stay even with 13 position players and 13 pitchers.

    #49607
    Cardinals27
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    Are there numbers supporting why starters don’t go deeper into games? Is it really an issue across MLB about going thru the lineup a 3rd time? I could see some young arms being protected, but the only young starter they have is Weaver, and even he seems like best strike thrower of the lot. The others I would consider veterans, and at this point could throw 100+ pitches.

    #49630
    mudville
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    Most pitchers nowadays think they’re finished pitching after five innings, and that they’re a hero if they go six or seven. And if they go eight or nine innings, they think they’re something special. That’s just the way it is. The idea that its okay for a pitcher to leave the game after five innings is just an example of lowered standards, and lowered expectations, regardless of what the numbers say.

    #49636
    Cards667
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    Teams are 1)protecting their investment and 2) using analytics.
    They are spending a lot of money on SP and are always concerned about over use. But the main thing is the numbers show it is much more successful not to run a pitcher through a line up a 3rd time and the pen is much more successful, which is leading to more 8 men pens. The numbers don’t lie. Wacha is terrible a 3rd time through, but most pitchers are. It’s nothing to do with lowering standards, it’s giving the team the best odds at winning.

    #49640
    bicyclemike
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    A study reported in a SABR publication several years back showed that all of the late inning specialiaztion has not altered results. In other words, teams with late leads tend to win with the same frequency across history. But then specialization is the norm for all teams today, and it was not the norm at all some 40 years ago. So any benefit is cancelled out since both teams are using the same philosophies.

    The speed gun has played a big part in pitchers burning out quicker. There is no more pacing yourself as a pitcher. They are taught to go all out as long as they can.

    And as mentioned, the investment is much greater today. Pitchers are protected. That is one of the main reasons we will see the universal DH soon. Pitchers hitting is a relic of how the game was once played, like the complete game and the 10 man staff or 4 man rotation.

    #49644
    Brian Walton
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    How soon do you predict “soon” will be? As a reminder, this is the 36th season for the designated hitter in the American League.

    #49709
    14NyquisT
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    With more games being decided by the bullpen and starters only going 5.0+ inn., you would think that there might be a devaluation for starters. This new theory on limited pitches or innings or facing the order three times has been given the okay by the player’s union to up relievers salaries. They feel that they can play with the mentality of the game… thus lowering expectations and ultimately standards.

    #49711
    Brian Walton
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    Ny, I don’t know if anyone will be devalued. Perhaps the salary escalation for starters will slow. We already saw a little of that with mid-tier free agents this winter. Though the top end guys are going to get paid. See what ensues if Kershaw opts out, for example.

    I am confused by one point, though. It could be in my interpretation of the wording. It seems like you are saying the Players Association decided relievers salaries should go up. “That is not how it works,” as the old lady on the Geico Facebook commercial said.

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