Eight-man pen – Mayers usage

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  • #47616
    Brian Walton
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    So far this season, spring training phenom Mike Mayers has made just one appearance, one inning back on March 29. He hasn’t pitched in the week since, including tonight, a game in which the starter did not make it through four innings. That led to the following twitter dialogue.

    #47620
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    Matheny has used 4 different relievers after Waino left in the 4th. Not only has he used 4 different pitchers, but Mayers hasn’t pitched in forever and could have gotten you 3-4 innings. But no! Matheny is emptying out the bullpen at an incredible rate.

    Bowman – 4 g, 4 ip
    Sherriff – 3 g, 2.2 ip
    Leone – 3 g, 3.2 ip
    Lyons – 4 g, 2 ip

    This is only game 7 and already Bowman and Lyons are on pace to appear in a crazy amount of games. Meanwhile, Mayers is wasting away.

    #47621
    Brianpnoonan
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    No comment (well not much) on account of having ranted about the eighth bullpen arm all winter.

    Take the binky away from the manager is classic.

    #47622
    NJ315
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    If you are not going to use #8 why have him?

    #47643
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    Take the binky away? How about relieve him of his duties. As I said the other day, he continually displays his incompetence on an almost daily basis.

    #47671
    Cardinals27
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    Mike Matheny, while being a really good guy, is a terrible manager. His use of pitchers defies logic, and overuse has helped Rosenthal, Siegrist, and soon Bowman to the DL list often. Lyons, Bowman, and Hicks have pitched 4 games already, and all of the others in the pen have pitched 3, while Mayers has pitched 1. Mayers could have pitched another game or 2,and perhaps 2 innings.

    And please, please do not trot out Hicks at this rate. He is something special that could be a future ace, or closer. Please let Mayers know he is still on the team.

    #47674
    14NyquisT
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    Who gets sent out when Holland is added? Consequences as they are probably Hicks… so use him now, see what he’s got at MLB level. When Gregerson and Cecil return… two more decisions to make. Probably Mayers is one to leave and he’ll have time pitch after Hicks is gone. Sherriff is the other candidate. Hicks will be the first up if need be, but I could very easily be wrong about all of this.

    #47676
    PadsFS
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    You can complain about Mayers all you want, but I don’t really want him anywhere near a close game as this and many others have been. He should be eased into a role in low-leverage situations.

    Also, every single April, people complain about “over-used relievers not taking into account all the off-days through-out the month. Every reliever was available yesterday after Martinez’s gem. If that’s the case, I want our best relievers pitching – Leone, Lyons, and Hicks all pitched. Why is that shocking.

    Who cares how much Mayers plays and further how has not having someone like Voit on the roster instead (sitting too I’m sure) hurt our offense?

    #47677
    Brian Walton
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    Judging by the number of re-tweets the initial two comments have received, the many fans upset about Matheny grasped onto this hard.

    As I step back, I get the potential overuse issue later on, but so far in the bigger picture, I haven’t seen any games that seemed to hang in the balance because Mayers was not used nor hinging on not having anyone to pinch hit. Instead, the most common gripe has been over taking Carpenter out of games too soon.

    I do consider bullpen usage important, but personally, I am going to wait a bit longer than seven games to draw any hard conclusions.

    #47678
    Brianpnoonan
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    I hate comparing managers but in this case it is valid.

    Larussa would make absolutely sure everyone would get playing time and stay fresh. If you weren’t being used you were shipped out

    We would lose some games early in the year due to be some guys failing but you found out what you had and moved forward. Or the kids learned and got better.

    This usage is a joke. Period. Especially given the lack of pinch hitter available and the extra days off.

    You can’t defend stupid no matter how hard you try. Trust me.

    #47684
    Brianpnoonan
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    Pads… all you’re saying is matheny doesn’t use his whole roster and that is a SEVERE managerial weakness.

    I haven’t been on the hate matheny train much but I am pretty much there now

    #47698
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    Pads must like having only a 24-man roster which is weird.

    #47699
    PadsFS
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    All I am saying is that there hasn’t been any games that Mayers would be a good option for yet and with the off-days, Matheny is using his most potent pitchers the most.

    LaRussa did the same thing as Matheny. In this later years with the Cardinals, he rode Franklin, Springer, and McClellan hard and that shifted into Hawksworth, Boggs, Motte, and Salas later on. He was handicapped then in having two LH relievers in Reyes and Miller (Rzep and Rhodes by 2011) that couldn’t be left in for an inning at a time.

    Last year, Matheny used Socolovich and Broxton in the manner you are shaming (for lack of a better word) him for and he was chastised for that and we had to cut bait with those two. Mayers has the potential to be a bullpen stalwart so I think low-leverage situations would be optimal for his development. I’m afraid if he bombs again like in 2016 and 2017, he will be done as a major leaguer so there is no harm in easing him into the fold imo.

    #47700
    PadsFS
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    It’s only been 7 games. Pena hasn’t even played yet has he?

    #47707
    Bw52
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    It is still stupid to have 8 men in the bullpen IMO.How many times will the 8th guy really matter? What happens when MM looks down the bench for a crucial Pinch-hitter and all he has is Pena(who will rarely see the field) and there is no one left but Wainwright.This beyond dumb.

    #47708
    bicyclemike
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    It is certainly worth discussing why you would have a guy that does not see much action. The answer is most likely that Mayers is the “mop up” guy, to absorb innings in blow outs. Since last night’s game stayed close, Matheny went with guys higher on the food chain.

    Bullpens are highly role-oriented these days, and managers tend to get stuck in this mindset of only using guys when the game situation matches their role.

    Personally, I don’t like that line of thinking, as it is too “push button”. You gotta look at the bigger picture sometimes, rather than the finite situation. But then I hate 13 man pitching staffs too, for what it’s worth.

    #47717
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    Pena is the back-up catcher and its a false equivalency.

    #47722
    Brian Walton
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    To bikemike’s point about roles, the Brewers had gone six days without using their closer, who then was used in a blowout and got hurt. Sometimes, managers can not seem to win.

    #47731
    Cardinals27
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    Matheny gets too comfortable with certain relievers. His love of Bowman is something I don’t get. He has a good chunk of fault, along with the front office, with the state of Siegrist and Rosenthals current careers’. Granted, the front office could have aided their manager, and at times they have, but not often enough.

    Bottom line is you have to use all of your roster. Our calling card, pardon the pun, is depth. SO why not use it?

    Anyone who has pitched 4 games in a week/ 7 team games, is on a pace for 83 games. We have 4 of these pitchers. If the pace keeps up, this is very disturbing. Mayers is on a pace for 23 games.

    #47733
    Cardinals27
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    I really do not like having starters conditioned at the end of Spring Training to go only 5 innings. I think all starters not named Wainright need to be tested once near the end of ST to attempt to go 6+. Not everyone has an Andrew MIller.

    #47747
    14NyquisT
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    Not everybody has a Warren Spahn. He was pitching complete games for 21+ seasons. Just talking about him causes the player’s union president break out in a rash. Today’s players are pampered way too much. But then they are also very expensive commodities in today’s market… thanks to the union.

    “Too many pitches, too many innings, too may games”…. poor little fragile boys.

    #47752
    14NyquisT
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    Spahnie’s highlights:

    1950 – age28 25CG – 293-IP 191Ks

    1951 – 26CG – 310.2 IP

    1953 – age31 – 23-7WL – 2.10ERA -310,2 IP- WHIP= 1.06

    He went on to play 14 more seasons.

    Maybe it was good the MLBPU wasn’t around to cut into his performance production

    He lost 3 years in the military ’42-’43-’44.

    What would you pay a guy like that today? Yes, he was human also.

    #47754
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    Its the like people commenting here hate the free market when it applies to baseball. Lets blame the players for making their share of money and ignore the owners making billions. These comments are laughable.

    #47756
    Brian Walton
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    Just my views follow…

    When all is said and done, our opinions are irrelevant. The owners and the Union have a process to set player compensation. Whether I personally see it as right or wrong, it is what the two sides with the most at stake agreed to. So who am I to complain about it?

    The other day, a respected writer was moderating a fervent twitter discussion over whether MLB Advanced Media money should be included in revenue calculations. My answer: That is for Tony Clark and the Union to figure out, not fans.

    Having said that, I agree that fans are being priced out of the game, but I see that as an entirely separate issue from player compensation. I do not feel the latter is the key driver of increased costs to fans.

    #47814
    Brian Walton
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