November 22, 2021 at 4:11 pm #177233
From the Hall of Fame:
The Baseball Writers’ Association of America has announced its 2022 Hall of Fame ballot. 13 former players will appear on the ballot for the first time, while 17 will return after receiving at least 5% of the overall vote in 2021, when no candidate earned election to the Hall of Fame. The BBWAA will announce the results of the vote live on MLB Network at 6 p.m. ET on Jan. 25.
Infielders Álex Rodríguez, Justin Morneau, Ryan Howard and Jimmy Rollins; pitchers Tim Lincecum and Jake Peavy; and DH-first baseman David Ortiz will join 17 holdovers from the 2021 balloting which failed to produce a new Hall of Famer. Candidates must be named on 75 percent of ballots cast by selected BBWAA members with 10 or more consecutive years of MLB coverage to gain election and be part of Induction Weekend July 22-25, 2022, in Cooperstown, N.Y.
Falling 16 votes shy of election last year was pitcher Curt Schilling, whose total of 285 votes represented 71.1 percent of the electorate. The only other players who received more than 50 percent of the vote in the 2021 election were outfielder Barry Bonds (61.8), pitcher Roger Clemens (61.6) and third baseman Scott Rolen (52.9). Players may remain on the ballot for up to 10 years provided they receive votes on at least five percent of all ballots cast.
This will be the final year on the ballot for Schilling, Bonds, Clemens and outfielder Sammy Sosa. Other holdovers from the 2021 ballot are pitchers Mark Buehrle, Tim Hudson, Andy Pettitte and Billy Wagner; first baseman Todd Helton; second baseman Jeff Kent; shortstop Omar Vizquel, and outfielders Bobby Abreu, Torii Hunter, Andruw Jones, Manny Ramírez and Gary Sheffield.December 5, 2021 at 6:09 pm #177947December 6, 2021 at 10:04 am #17798114NyquisTParticipant
…… and Minny “boink” Minoso…. a big fan favorite in the day.December 7, 2021 at 12:25 pm #178024
The HOF is so watered down nowadays. Is just a novelty. Getting to be a lot of Impalas and even a few Biscaynes in there. You are either a Cadillac or you aren’t.December 7, 2021 at 1:17 pm #178030
I have zero problem with the guys who made it so far. Kaat is the only one I actually saw play. He was a really good reliable pitcher even with the Cardinals when he was older. We would be a better team now if we had more guys like him. The one guy I can’t remember his name saying Hodges deserved being for just how good a defensive player he was, I second that sentiment. Too many times we get lost in numbers.December 7, 2021 at 3:24 pm #178033858booyahParticipantFree
Who are you exactly caterwauling about kscards?December 7, 2021 at 11:16 pm #178046
The standards keep getting lower. Take Mantle, Mays, Aaron all HOF outfielders as an example. They set the standard. If you aren’t on their level then you don’t belong. Is Dave Winfield for example on that level? Or is he just a great player.December 8, 2021 at 3:03 pm #178067
If only guys like Aaron are allowed then you might as well not have a hall of fame.December 9, 2021 at 1:14 pm #178122
If guys like Mazeroski are allowed you might as well not have a hall of fame. Really boils down to what you consider a Hall Of Famer.December 9, 2021 at 1:39 pm #178123RatsbuddyParticipantFree
I totally agree that there have been alot of borderline inductees into the HOF in recent years. To me it’s the Hall of Fame – NOT the Hall of Pretty Good.
r/Esteemed RatDecember 9, 2021 at 2:00 pm #178124stlcard25ParticipantPaid - Annual
Who gets to define “fame,” though? To Rats and Ks, you’d have a tiny little Hall with a few players in it, which would hardly be reason to go to the middle of NY to visit. Others pretty much define fame as a guy who was well known to the general public, so guys like Jose Canseco could get in.
For me, I generally think about it like this: was the player one of or the best at his position over a 10ish year span? Ie, was he an All Star (or potential All Star) pretty much every year over that time frame? A few guys fall outside that for me, but most work with my broad metric.
To use a current example… Christian Yelich has 33.4 current WAR. He has two AS appearances, thanks to most of his production coming in two years. He’s basically Matt Carpenter with a better peak. Not a Hall of Famer and little chance to get there at 30 years old. Mookie Betts at 29 has 50.0 WAR. 5 All Star nods. He’s a few more good years from being a lock, IMO. Get your 10 years in and don’t completely flame out and it makes it an easy call.
Another example for me is Justin Verlander vs Adam Wainwright. Both were arguably one of the best pitchers in the game for a while. WAR-Verlander 71.8, Waino 44.5. Verlander has 8 All Star nods to Waino’s 3. The difference (and WAR usually accounts for this): Verlander’s peak lasted arguably 4-5 more seasons than Waino’s. Waino was one of the best from 2008-2014 but those 7 years just put you in the Hall of Very Good while Verlander is a Cooperstown lock.December 9, 2021 at 7:01 pm #178132GameCardParticipantFree
Ken Boyer had a career WAR of 62.8 which was significantly higher than Hodges, Oliva, Kaat & Minoso. Why do we think the others were voted in and he wasn’t? I thought Jim Kaat and Boyer should have been voted in but not the others.December 9, 2021 at 9:49 pm #178134
If any of the voters know that WAR exists, they probably discredit it.December 10, 2021 at 7:52 pm #178151bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
I was surprised Boyer did not make it this time, and also thought Richie “Dick” Allen would get there.
I like stlcard25’s Hall criteria. I have a similar viewpoint. If a guy is one of the best, made several All Star teams, and had a few special moments he deserves the Hall. That “special moment” part applies to guys who are otherwise borderline.
I think that is a reason Mazeroski got in. Lou Brock is not a slam dunk HOFer, but his World Series greatness and stolen base excellence put him over the top. Maris’ 61 homers have not quite gotten him there, but he is close. Had he put together a couple more years like his ‘62-‘64 seasons, where he was a solid player though not great, the 61 would have gotten him there by now.
I like the Verlander/Waino comp. Waino will be a guy who will likely fall short of the Hall, but easily get to the Cardinals HOF, and deservedly so.December 11, 2021 at 10:23 am #178157
I just think that several posters on here are selfish in their thoughts. Having more people get in doesn’t discredit anything unless you don’t know much about baseball yourself. There has always been tiers to the hall of fame. There isn’t a specific metric to measure a hall of famer. You can throw numbers at me all day long, they bounce off me like rain off a tin roof. I seriously doubt any of the hall of famers get mad when a player gets in that people out here in the world who never did anything, feel doesn’t deserve it. In fact I bet they welcome him. The hall is for those guys, not the people on the outside looking in. Those marginal guys getting in hurts no one, only gives those guys some joy if they got to live long enough to see it in the first place. Makes the hall better and provides more discussion when you are talking about the hall and it’s members. I guess by some standards I may be out of line here but I don’t care for gate protectors. Saying someone doesn’t belong in the hall that got in is in my mind disrespectful to that person, kind of like saying a person that someone said was a hero, isn’t a hero. It’s just bad form in my opinion. Let the person shine I say, doesn’t hurt anything. Instead of talking about who shouldn’t be in hall of fame, it’s better to talk about who isn’t in the hall that should be or where the guys that are in there rank among themselves. That’s a far more productive discussion.December 11, 2021 at 10:34 am #178158OumookieParticipantFree
Boyer should have gotten in. He has higher WAR and better stats than many already in. Add to that the MVP, World Series title, 7 All Star appearances, and 5 gold gloves. What are they waiting for with Boyer?December 11, 2021 at 12:05 pm #178163
Yea Boyer would be a good addition. Even comparing him vs other Cardinals in there he belongs.December 11, 2021 at 1:12 pm #178164jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
If you could only pick one Willie, would you prefer Boyer or Rolen?December 11, 2021 at 1:28 pm #178165
Well there is no just one but just playing along, I would go with rolen cause rolen is the best defensive third baseman I have seen and had good offensive output. I personally never saw Boyer play so I’m kind of going off of reputation with him. But you have to do that with lots of guys cause like I say, I don’t just trust some blanket numbers. That being said, Boyer has waited longer so he probably deserves it first out of those two.December 11, 2021 at 2:27 pm #178166jj-cf-stlParticipantPaid - Annual
I’ll take Boyer. He has an MVP-1, MVP-6, MVP-7 and MVP-10
Rolen has an MVP-4 season and no other top tens.
I know total war gives Rolen a slight edge, but now we’re comparing era’s. Boyer was more elite in his era, imo.
Tough question, thanks for playing along.December 11, 2021 at 5:07 pm #178171Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I think Boyer and Rolen should both be in the Hall. If it wasn’t for freak shoulder injuries, Rolen would already be in the Hall.December 11, 2021 at 5:11 pm #178172
Rolen has a big advantage, IMO, as he is still on the current writers ballot. As their individual ballots have become more transparent over the years, the public scrutiny exposes the anomalies in their voting and the problems have become fewer and far between. The number of ballots are in the hundreds, meaning the uniformed voters have less impact on the end result.
Boyer’s case is now in the hands of 16 people who do not review his case annually and may not be as enlightened.December 11, 2021 at 8:02 pm #178176
Lol. Never have been called selfish about making a comment about the HOF. Hell, I’m not in. How is that selfish. You can put half of MLB in there if you want. It would just degrade what players like Mays did.December 12, 2021 at 8:51 am #178187
One player doesn’t degrade another in the hall of fame. That’s only in the minds of those who never did anythingDecember 12, 2021 at 9:13 am #178188
You have no idea what I have done in my life. You have problems son.
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