December 13, 2018 at 9:53 am #77353
BM-we agree to disagree.As for baseball-educated opinions- I call out the fact that way too many of these so-called educated opinions are purely stat related and fail to take in to account intangible unkown factors that fans,writers don`t notice or see.I trust people who played the game and are involved in the game more than some stats weenies who are enraged.A group of HBs peers and people who dealt with him constantly voted him him the HOF.I bet the same people raising hell about Baines probably raised hell about Bill Mazeroski (if they even knew who he was?).
As for steroids versus greenies etc,….I see what you are saying but IMHO adding something to your body to change physical chemistry (greenies,coke ,pot ..it changed the player) Steroids changed the player..so steroids might have been a longer lasting effect but the fact remains all were body altering.Its like degrees of effect is how I see it.I certainly wonder about the hypocrisy MLB shows and did show when the steroids thing was happening.MLB certainly wasn`t complaining when McGwire/Sosa got people interested in baseball again and when HOMERUN derby thrilled the fans.Anyway It might be apples to oranges to you but we agree to disagree.Not a big deal or a problem.December 14, 2018 at 9:54 am #77495bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Fair enough BW. Good comments. I look at the pre-steroid “stuff” similar to having an extra cup of coffee to get going in the morning, and steroids as equating to shooting up with speed. We just did not have “designer” drugs back in the day, where your physique actually changes.
And on the point of looking beyond the stats, I have always been a believer in that as part of a player’s full value. It’s not black-and-white though, so bringing that into the mix brings about debate.
One part of the Baines’ “controversy” is he spent a lot of time as a DH. If Baines is a Hall-Of-Famer, then certainly Ken Boyer is. He had the intangibles of Baines, while playing a more premium defensive position and accumulating better stats.
But these debates could go on endlessly, with most everyone championing someone who deserves to be recognized when comparing them to someone who was elected.December 22, 2018 at 11:18 am #782711982 willieParticipantFree
well I have no problem with either guys really. I think smith should have gotten in on the regular ballot so to me its about time. far as baines goes. I can definitely see the argument that he doesn’t belong. but I guess im softening as I get older. I just think there are tiers to the hall of fame. there has always been guys that if you look back at the history, probably shouldn’t be in if you are totally trying to limit it to the immortals. those are guys that are never brought up in greatest of discussions but their inclusion in the hall doesn’t tarnish the others in any way. its fun to discuss who should or shouldn’t but its ok if some guys get a nice break. even baines never expected it so to me its ok. sure are there others more deserving, yea most definitely. but baines was a solid player. my only issue is it opens up for other dh players. but everyone knows big pappi is gonna get in so that was gonna be opened anyway. just my thoughtsDecember 22, 2018 at 11:24 am #78272
Yes, the voters struggle with how to handle both DHs and closers. Seems to me they need to be considered in the context of the jobs they were given.
Also, welcome 1982willie!December 26, 2018 at 7:36 pm #78597December 26, 2018 at 7:43 pm #78598
Rolen is running 18.8% through 100 voters in his second shot. Larry Walker at 63.4% in his ninth year.
Want a quick look at where Baseball HOF candidates are tracking? I made this just for you: https://t.co/4Tq9qIVwW5
Of course, the full Ballot Tracker with all the glorious details will always be available at: https://t.co/8ISx82oWgM
— Ryan Thibodaux (@NotMrTibbs) December 1, 2018December 26, 2018 at 9:00 pm #78607mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
Mariano Rivera. 44 games saved and an elite pitching line to support it, at the age of 43. Why did he retire? The last player to have an elite stat line at such a late age was Barry Bonds. Amazing. And the Yankees won 5 World Series during Rivera’s tenure. Thank you, Mariano Rivera.December 27, 2018 at 7:33 am #78615
Saxon votes for Walker, but skips Rolen. Also votes for Manny, Bonds and Clemens.
— Adam Dore (@ShutTheDore) December 27, 2018December 27, 2018 at 3:50 pm #78693
Keith Law’s defense of Barry Bonds while using a fallacy against Pujols is just another example of him being a hack writer. I personally have no problem with Bonds getting elected to the HOF but to claim Bond’s didn’t know he was on PEDs is simply dishonest.December 27, 2018 at 4:00 pm #78697mudvilleParticipantPaid - Annual
No one has ever connected Rivera with PED’s, and I have no problem with Rivera getting elected to the HOF either.December 31, 2018 at 2:08 pm #78974
A Matt Carpenter bat is included.
Here is a list of game-used artifacts from the 2018 MLB season that will be preserved at the @baseballhall.
— Jon Shestakofsky (@Shesta_HOF) December 31, 2018January 7, 2019 at 2:23 pm #79436
Hall of Fame President Jeff Idelson will announce the results of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America Hall of Fame election live at 6 p.m. ET on Tuesday, Jan. 22 on MLB Network.January 7, 2019 at 2:48 pm #79445
With 158 ballots revealed/~38.3% of the vote known:
Mo – 100%
Doc – 94.3%
Edgar – 90.5%
Mussina – 82.9%
Clemens – 74.1%
Bonds – 73.4%
Schilling – 73.4%
Walker – 66.5%
Vizquel – 36.1%
McGriff – 36.1%
Manny – 26.6%
Rolen – 20.3%
Helton – 19.6%
— Ryan Thibodaux (@NotMrTibbs) January 7, 2019January 8, 2019 at 3:58 pm #79518
Rolen will not get in this year, but looks to be doubling his total from last year.
Former Phillies, Cardinals, Blue Jays, and Reds 3B Scott Rolen could hit and could field at a high level. And the @billjamesonline Hall of Fame Value Standard says he is Cooperstown-worthy https://t.co/2rjxnoafzc
— Sports Info Solutions (@SportsInfo_SIS) January 8, 2019January 13, 2019 at 4:47 pm #79916
Good article for The Athletic subscribers on Larry Walker’s Hall case and where he stands on it.
— John Lott (@LottOnBaseball) January 13, 2019January 22, 2019 at 5:29 pm #80483
425 votes were cast and No Rivera received 100% of the vote. Mussina, Edgar, and Doc Halladay join Lee Smith and Harold Baines.January 22, 2019 at 8:03 pm #80489
Interesting that substantially more of the writers who are hiding their ballot are anti-steroids. In fact, they may just be anti-baseball!
Initial Public/Private splits (with the caveat that we already have a handful more post-announcement ballots to add):
Bonds: 70.1% | 45.5%
Clemens: 70.5% | 46.1%
Halladay: 92.7% | 76.4%
Mussina: 81.6% | 70.7%
Schilling: 70.1% | 49.7%
Vizquel: 38.0% | 48.7%
Walker: 65.8% | 40.8%
— Ryan Thibodaux (@NotMrTibbs) January 23, 2019January 22, 2019 at 8:42 pm #80492
At least scumbag ballonhead Barry and Pincushion Roger are out for at least another year.That cheers me up.January 22, 2019 at 9:11 pm #80493Cardinals27ParticipantPaid - Annual
I am not sure Halladay deserves in. He seema to be in the tier just below. A very, very good player, but I thought you had to have near 300 wins? And it is scary that Jeter is the only lock next year, meaning Bonds and Schilling will probably get in. If you aren’t going to let McGwire, Palmeiro in, among others, then those 2 shouldn’t get in either. Rolen has a heck of a case against when compared to most third basemen. He certainly would be comparable, if not better than a Halladay versus MLB hall of fame pitchers.January 23, 2019 at 10:35 am #80528
With teams using 5 man rotations IMHO you won`t likely see a 300 game winner again.Getting 33 starts a season if healthy and winning 15-20 games a season will still take 15 years or longer in most circumstances.As for Bonds and Clemens I hope both never get elected.When David Ortiz gets eligible ihope he gets shut out also.January 23, 2019 at 1:58 pm #80544
Rolen’s counting stats are low, comparatively speaking, to 3B Hall of Famers. Just yesterday, TLR wondered aloud what Rolen’s career would have been had his shoulder not been injured. He is not yet in the Cards Hall of Fame, though this could be his year. For Cooperstown, it looks like he doubled his support from 10 to 20% in year two. If he could add 10% every year, he would eventually get in.January 23, 2019 at 2:39 pm #80550
I am not sure Halladay deserves in. He seema to be in the tier just below. A very, very good player, but I thought you had to have near 300 wins? And it is scary that Jeter is the only lock next year, meaning Bonds and Schilling will probably get in. If you aren’t going to let McGwire, Palmeiro in, among others, then those 2 shouldn’t get in either. Rolen has a heck of a case against when compared to most third basemen. He certainly would be comparable, if not better than a Halladay versus MLB hall of fame pitchers.
I’m not sure how your math predicts Bonds and Clemons getting into the Hall. Their numbers have been stagnant for the past few years and they are running out of years. There is a large block of voters who are adamant about not voting for PED users.January 23, 2019 at 3:45 pm #80554
Clemens’ and Bonds’ approximate percentage of the vote:
Another Hall of Fame class has been selected without Bonds or Clemens getting in.
— FOX Sports: MLB (@MLBONFOX) January 23, 2019January 23, 2019 at 6:49 pm #80569
I'm more convinced than ever that Barry Bonds and Roger Clemens will not be voted into the Hall of Fame. Why? I asked the people who don't vote for him — and almost all of them say nothing will change their mind.
— Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) January 23, 2019January 23, 2019 at 7:22 pm #80571PugsleyAddamsParticipantPaid - Annual
As I gaze over the esteemed list of would-be HoFers, if I listen very closely, a hushed male voice can be heard…
“What if Father Fate had not been so unkind to Kenny Hubbs and Lyman Bostock”.
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