Cooperstown Class of 2019

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This topic contains 86 replies, has 13 voices, and was last updated by Brian Walton Brian Walton 2 months, 2 weeks ago.

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  • #77353
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    Bw52
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    BM-we agree to disagree.As for baseball-educated opinions- I call out the fact that way too many of these so-called educated opinions are purely stat related and fail to take in to account intangible unkown factors that fans,writers don`t notice or see.I trust people who played the game and are involved in the game more than some stats weenies who are enraged.A group of HBs peers and people who dealt with him constantly voted him him the HOF.I bet the same people raising hell about Baines probably raised hell about Bill Mazeroski (if they even knew who he was?).
    As for steroids versus greenies etc,….I see what you are saying but IMHO adding something to your body to change physical chemistry (greenies,coke ,pot ..it changed the player) Steroids changed the player..so steroids might have been a longer lasting effect but the fact remains all were body altering.Its like degrees of effect is how I see it.I certainly wonder about the hypocrisy MLB shows and did show when the steroids thing was happening.MLB certainly wasn`t complaining when McGwire/Sosa got people interested in baseball again and when HOMERUN derby thrilled the fans.Anyway It might be apples to oranges to you but we agree to disagree.Not a big deal or a problem.

    #77495
    bicyclemike
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    Fair enough BW. Good comments. I look at the pre-steroid “stuff” similar to having an extra cup of coffee to get going in the morning, and steroids as equating to shooting up with speed. We just did not have “designer” drugs back in the day, where your physique actually changes.

    And on the point of looking beyond the stats, I have always been a believer in that as part of a player’s full value. It’s not black-and-white though, so bringing that into the mix brings about debate.

    One part of the Baines’ “controversy” is he spent a lot of time as a DH. If Baines is a Hall-Of-Famer, then certainly Ken Boyer is. He had the intangibles of Baines, while playing a more premium defensive position and accumulating better stats.

    But these debates could go on endlessly, with most everyone championing someone who deserves to be recognized when comparing them to someone who was elected.

    #78271
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    1982 willie
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    well I have no problem with either guys really. I think smith should have gotten in on the regular ballot so to me its about time. far as baines goes. I can definitely see the argument that he doesn’t belong. but I guess im softening as I get older. I just think there are tiers to the hall of fame. there has always been guys that if you look back at the history, probably shouldn’t be in if you are totally trying to limit it to the immortals. those are guys that are never brought up in greatest of discussions but their inclusion in the hall doesn’t tarnish the others in any way. its fun to discuss who should or shouldn’t but its ok if some guys get a nice break. even baines never expected it so to me its ok. sure are there others more deserving, yea most definitely. but baines was a solid player. my only issue is it opens up for other dh players. but everyone knows big pappi is gonna get in so that was gonna be opened anyway. just my thoughts

    #78272
    Brian Walton
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    Yes, the voters struggle with how to handle both DHs and closers. Seems to me they need to be considered in the context of the jobs they were given.

    Also, welcome 1982willie!

    #78597
    Brian Walton
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    #78598
    Brian Walton
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    Rolen is running 18.8% through 100 voters in his second shot. Larry Walker at 63.4% in his ninth year.

    #78607
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    mudville
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    Mariano Rivera. 44 games saved and an elite pitching line to support it, at the age of 43. Why did he retire? The last player to have an elite stat line at such a late age was Barry Bonds. Amazing. And the Yankees won 5 World Series during Rivera’s tenure. Thank you, Mariano Rivera.

    #78615
    Brian Walton
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    Saxon votes for Walker, but skips Rolen. Also votes for Manny, Bonds and Clemens.

    #78693
    BlackHillsCard
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    Keith Law’s defense of Barry Bonds while using a fallacy against Pujols is just another example of him being a hack writer. I personally have no problem with Bonds getting elected to the HOF but to claim Bond’s didn’t know he was on PEDs is simply dishonest.

    #78697
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    mudville
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    No one has ever connected Rivera with PED’s, and I have no problem with Rivera getting elected to the HOF either.

    #78974
    Brian Walton
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    A Matt Carpenter bat is included.

    #79436
    Brian Walton
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    Hall of Fame President Jeff Idelson will announce the results of the Baseball Writers’ Association of America Hall of Fame election live at 6 p.m. ET on Tuesday, Jan. 22 on MLB Network.

    #79445
    Brian Walton
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    #79518
    Brian Walton
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    Rolen will not get in this year, but looks to be doubling his total from last year.

    #79916
    Brian Walton
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    Good article for The Athletic subscribers on Larry Walker’s Hall case and where he stands on it.

    #80483
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    425 votes were cast and No Rivera received 100% of the vote. Mussina, Edgar, and Doc Halladay join Lee Smith and Harold Baines.

    #80489
    Brian Walton
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    Interesting that substantially more of the writers who are hiding their ballot are anti-steroids. In fact, they may just be anti-baseball!

    #80492
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    Bw52
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    At least scumbag ballonhead Barry and Pincushion Roger are out for at least another year.That cheers me up.

    #80493
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    Cardinals27
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    I am not sure Halladay deserves in. He seema to be in the tier just below. A very, very good player, but I thought you had to have near 300 wins? And it is scary that Jeter is the only lock next year, meaning Bonds and Schilling will probably get in. If you aren’t going to let McGwire, Palmeiro in, among others, then those 2 shouldn’t get in either. Rolen has a heck of a case against when compared to most third basemen. He certainly would be comparable, if not better than a Halladay versus MLB hall of fame pitchers.

    #80528
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    Bw52
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    With teams using 5 man rotations IMHO you won`t likely see a 300 game winner again.Getting 33 starts a season if healthy and winning 15-20 games a season will still take 15 years or longer in most circumstances.As for Bonds and Clemens I hope both never get elected.When David Ortiz gets eligible ihope he gets shut out also.

    #80544
    Brian Walton
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    Rolen’s counting stats are low, comparatively speaking, to 3B Hall of Famers. Just yesterday, TLR wondered aloud what Rolen’s career would have been had his shoulder not been injured. He is not yet in the Cards Hall of Fame, though this could be his year. For Cooperstown, it looks like he doubled his support from 10 to 20% in year two. If he could add 10% every year, he would eventually get in.

    #80550
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    I am not sure Halladay deserves in. He seema to be in the tier just below. A very, very good player, but I thought you had to have near 300 wins? And it is scary that Jeter is the only lock next year, meaning Bonds and Schilling will probably get in. If you aren’t going to let McGwire, Palmeiro in, among others, then those 2 shouldn’t get in either. Rolen has a heck of a case against when compared to most third basemen. He certainly would be comparable, if not better than a Halladay versus MLB hall of fame pitchers.

    I’m not sure how your math predicts Bonds and Clemons getting into the Hall. Their numbers have been stagnant for the past few years and they are running out of years. There is a large block of voters who are adamant about not voting for PED users.

    #80554
    Brian Walton
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    Clemens’ and Bonds’ approximate percentage of the vote:

    2015 37%
    2016 44%
    2017 54%
    2018 57%
    2019 59%

    #80569
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    #80571
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    PugsleyAddams
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    As I gaze over the esteemed list of would-be HoFers, if I listen very closely, a hushed male voice can be heard…
    “What if Father Fate had not been so unkind to Kenny Hubbs and Lyman Bostock”.

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