Cards Trade Diaz

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  • #38685
    thejagerthejager
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    it seems not enough of a get for me personally.. it is better than nothing, but i thought Diaz would have been a nice handcuff for DeJong who is no guarantee to get better this next year as Diaz himself proved

    we dont really have a starting SS behind DeJong now…Garcia can play it a bit, but i dont want to start GArcia…Meija looks slick but i dont trust his bat for more than part time duty…and then who?

    Unless we really are planning for Cozart or another SS I don’t see the smarts in doing this until we absolutely need to.this is now the 3rd year in a row we havent had a real backup SS…and we haev been very lucky for it not to bite us in the butt as much as it could…Peralta had a nice year 2yrs back luckily and we had no backup…Diaz stepped up luckily when PErlata fell off…and Dejong stepped in luckily when Diaz fell off…

    Im not saying we need Andrelton to sit on the bench, but a competent backup SS would be nice especially when we dont have any SS at any level i dont think who has a year of play at SS on the 25 man…and if DeJong is the one who does..he has what 20 games at SS before that ever?

    Why do we need to chance SS defense? Diaz may not have been the best, but id feel way more comfortable having him backup SS than Garcia shoudl something happen to DeJong

    just too risky..

    i feel like this trade coudl have happened with the Jays or any other team interested at any time…doing it now seems odd…especially when we are looking at doing trades this offseason… don;t we want as many options for trades as possible?

    There must be a logic to it…i believe that…i just dont see it…

    maybe Stanton trade + Cozart signing (seeing as Cozarts market seems low and we may get him for less than he is worth)…as the means to amp the defense and the offense?
    then a trade for Colome
    maybe another trade for an SP?

    i dunno…

    as yet we have only seen one move that is part of the offseason plan:
    -trading Diaz (i guess for salary relief and a 40man spot)

    the only other move we know of is inquiring on Colome and going after Stanton

    #38686
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/mlb/reds/2017/10/31/what-zack-cozart-get-free-agency/818663001/

    “That executive thought Cozart could wind up with a two- or three-year deal guaranteeing him somewhere between $20 million and $30 million. The AL decision-maker aimed lower, suggesting the contracts of Jed Lowrie and Asdrubal Cabrera as analogs. Lowrie received three years and $23 million guaranteed prior to the 2015 season, and Cabrera got two years and $18.5 million guaranteed before the 2016 season.”

    “He’s probably a two-year guy,” the AL executive said. “And probably in the two years and $20 million range.”

    I agree – Cozart makes the most sense if you are looking to build a contender. And if he could be had for less than 2 years/$20 million, it would seem foolish not to given the regression Diaz suffered in his second year and the questions about DeJong’s OBP…Heck, maybe if they are bringing him as a backup/complimentary piece, they can get him for less than 2/$20.

    It does not seem as though his market should be hung up by Ohtani/Stanton…

    #38689
    Avatargscottar
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    I would love to get Cozart! He would be a great addition with both the bat and glove. We could slide DeJong over to 3B or 2B depending on what other moves we make.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by Avatargscottar.
    #38697
    AvatarPadsFS
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    I would guess that Mejia would be the first call-up if DeJong is injured. Then we have Valera, Tovar, and likely Edman in AAA that can all play shortstop.

    Sosa will be in AA too. After about May, I would feel comfortable with Edman or Sosa stepping in if needed. That would give them about 200 PAs or so in AA/AAA. Obviously, it’s preferable that they aren’t needed for one and can stay in AA/AAA all year to develop and be ready in 2019/2020.

    #38698
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    For those of you who think we shoukd have gotten more… Here you go.

    Remember jeff conine? World series and all star game mvp. Decent career really.

    His trade value for most of it? Next to zero. Probably a bit more but still. He even got traded to prove my point.. Look it up.

    I will also say I have a soft spot for conine that has everything to do with meeting a very genial man at crossroads mall in omaha when he was at aaa for the royals.

    Anywho…

    Contrast that to a guy who was the last or next to last pick on a bloated all star roster who swung at everything to the point that he got sent back to the minors. Where he still proceeded to swing at everything but got away with it because he was at aaa.

    Diaz. Had. No. Value.

    None. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

    Now, if you want to argue that we should be selling when their value is high on players like diaz and gyorko then I will agree in principle. But this trade is yet another consequence of choosing to stagnate the roster before 2017. We arent done yet imo either.

    Fyi, this year’s sell high on mediocre list off the top of my head :

    Fowler : this albatross has nowhere to go in value but down. Way down.

    Gyorko : I am split on this one. Depends on other deals. He gives enough value that keeping him is ok.

    Dejong : he could grichuk/diaz or he could learn to take even a few walks and be nomar garciaparra. With better defense. I am willing to chance that and hold bit if they deal him I understand.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by AvatarBrianpnoonan.
    #38716
    AvatarPadsFS
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    Nomar never struck out. I don’t see DeJong progressing like that. Diaz, like Piscotty, has (had) more value to us than anyone else. It’s not good risk-management, but really, there was nowhere for him to go with the Cardinals sticking with 13 pitchers and Garcia being such a solid backup infielder.

    If Diaz would have came in next year and hit the cover off the ball in spring training and AAA, do you call him up if Gyorko, DeJong, and Wong are all repeating their 2017 production? Plus they said for Carpenter to prepare to shift around the diamond. Plus there is Martinez taking at-bats away as a RH bench bat….

    #38720
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Fair on the nomar comparison. Nomar also hit for higher average.

    His defense was abysmal though..

    It was the closest comparison I had. Dejong probably has more power but less discipline etc… point is he COULD be very good… Or he could flame out. Selling high would be understandable.

    Diaz just had no place on the roster. You can argue why and what we can do to not let it happen again but they were really stuck.

    Heck, almost nobody has mentioned greg garcia either. I’m not sure if diaz even with touches the bigs this year barring a rash of injuries.

    #38732
    Avatarforsch31
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    A point to consider: when is a player’s high point? Diaz showed promise in 2016 that more could be coming. It didn’t, he lost his value and DeJong took his spot. Also, at the beginning of the 2017 season, there appeared to be no one to play SS if the Cardinals traded Diaz.

    We can revise history all we want. If Diaz had been traded prior to 2017, the fan forums would have been calling for wholesale changes in Cardinals management.

    #38733
    AvatarPadsFS
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    This is the first I’ve heard of this. I thought Diaz would receive league minimum in 2018.

    Diaz’s 4 year deal is over right, so we could have just assigned him the league minimum if he made the ML club, correct?
    by Derek Siilver 3:01 PM

    Not correct. They could only give him a pay cut of 20 percent, I believe. That’s it.
    by Derrick Goold 3:01 PM

    http://sports.live.stltoday.com/Event/Cardinals_chat_with_Derrick_Goold_d0719467c610?Page=2

    They probably don’t want to pay another $1.6M for a guy to spend most of the year in AAA.

    • This reply was modified 2 years, 5 months ago by AvatarPadsFS.
    #38736
    AvatarPadsFS
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    Brianpnoonan

    It was the closest comparison I had. Dejong probably has more power but less discipline etc… point is he COULD be very good… Or he could flame out. Selling high would be understandable.

    I’ve always put DeJong as Rougned Odor or Alfonso Soriano as his best potential comps hitting-wise. Plus they both played middle infield. Corey Patterson is another that hit like DeJong coming up.

    Soriano is probably the best case scenario. He was a mediocre SS for the Yankees, that was pushed to 2B.

    #38739
    AvatarCardinals2016
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    Pads – I read that on a Blue Jays blog the day it happened…so there are two sources indicating that

    #38743
    Avatarblingboy
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    The great fizzle.

    #38745
    AvatarBrianpnoonan
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    Yep, much better comp. Forgot soriano.

    If he sticks at short he is very solid. If he cant… And the down years could be diaz or grichuk nasty just like soriano.

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