December 2, 2017 at 11:09 am #38576Brian WaltonKeymasterPaid - Annual
Makes sense to me. I guess in the hindsight game, we could wonder if Adams’ bat might have helped the Cards win a few more games down the line. On the other hand, had Adams remained, Jose Martinez could have been blocked and it is hard to fathom Adams being as good as Martinez was to close the year.December 2, 2017 at 11:25 am #38580bicyclemikeModeratorPaid - Annual
Another “sell low” deal, but Brian states it well in that Diaz, like Adams, most likely would not get a chance to regain the value he once had. He was a mess last year, and the Cardinals feel they have better options. The one thing that could really backfire here is if DeJong struggles in ’18, and Diaz gets back close to the 2016 version.
I like DeJong, but am hesitant at this point to consider him a lock to be a long-term starter. He has a little bit of “Randal Grichuk” in his swing, but is young and can improve that part of his game with playing time, so hopefully he is the real deal.December 2, 2017 at 11:37 am #38583
The advantage of DeJong over Diaz is defense. You can probably still play him even if he struggles offensively, because the defense is there. You cannot do that with Diaz.December 2, 2017 at 11:39 am #38584
I disagree DeJong while he is a upgrade over Diaz defensively. He still isn’t that good at SSDecember 2, 2017 at 11:45 am #38585
Well, SS is your most important defensive position, and going from negative defensive value to average is huge.
But yes, hopefully DeJong will improve from year to year, so we aren’t questioning trading Diaz.December 2, 2017 at 12:38 pm #3859114NyquisTParticipant
It’s sad to see Diaz leave. He’s had a turbulent ride the last 5 seasons. From an MLB all-star SS to being thought of as expendable by the organization. I’m thinking that his spot on the 40-man became his undoing. It this point in time it is a very important slot. Two open spots are very different than one opening. I’ll be following Aledmys in the TOR organization. Bikemike’s “backfire” comment is a haunting point.
So why Woodman, a former 2nd rounder who seems to have a hole in his lefty bat. I’m not dismissing that he was TOR’s 28/29 prospect, but he didn’t crack STL’s top-30 (MLB). Playing with Lansing in the MWL, he would have been heading to Dunedin FSL, the Blue jays Advanced-A team, anyway. The thing is that there is a bit of an OF void at the AA/Adv-A levels.
Peoria finished their season with an OF of Carlson-Fennell-Fiedler-Plummer, only Carlson is a bonefide prospect. Palm Beach finished with an OF of Billings-Drake-Spitz-Jackson and the injured newcomer Lane Thomas. Honestly, not much there.
So there will be a good opportunity for Woodman, if he can put the bat on the ball more often. That would have to bring up his BA. A shot at the bigs? I would have to say doubtful because of who is above him on the depth chart. But he can provide an OF spot in the organization going forward. Naturally, I could be wrong because he went 57th in the ’16 draft, and he’s still only 22.December 2, 2017 at 12:53 pm #385921964cardsParticipantPaid - Annual
I am going to stay optimistic. I am nOt surprised that the club moved Diaz…for all the reasons stated. I am disappointed they couldn’t get something other than a OF in return…for all the reasons stated. So, I am hoping this move is part of a bigger plan. That is, this move paves the way for another prospect to be included in a deal to help acquire talent to fill gaps at the ML level.December 2, 2017 at 1:27 pm #38594
Signing Zack Cozart to a three year/$30 million deal would probably be ideal.
You can give Cozart, Gyorko & Wong (all of whom spent significant time on the DL last year) 2 days off each week. DeJong can play SS two days per week and 3B once per week. Garcia can play 2B two times per week and 3B once per week.
Then, the Cardinals can go all out in spring training, not worried about the drag of the regular season (something Matheny has been reluctant to do the past two years).
You can also have Jose Martinez spell Carpenter 2x per week, and Kelly spell Yadi 2X per week (good luck with that)…
Your starters are fresh, your backups are being groomed and seeing regular PA’s. It’s good all around.December 2, 2017 at 4:11 pm #38598
.. I had a post that describe my feelings pretty well and it disappeard. Gah.December 2, 2017 at 4:53 pm #38600UConn CardModeratorPaid - Annual
I see two posts by you last night right after Brian’s post. Was there another one?December 2, 2017 at 8:03 pm #38604Bw52ParticipantPaid - Annual
Like the trade.Woodman might turn into something with more development.Diaz could play defense good enough to balance out his slipping offense and he gets a new chance elsewhere and Cards get a prospect and roster room.Hope this is the first of several moves and i think Stanton goes to SF and MO and Girsh have to scramble to come up for big bat.December 2, 2017 at 9:57 pm #38608
Yes. I replied to the people saying that this is pruning…
Also pointed out some other stuff about our organization ss depth and how woodman can play good d.. getting a lot high talent lottery tickets pays off etc.
/shrugs… Cant remember all of it at this point but I definitely said some more.December 2, 2017 at 10:05 pm #38609UConn CardModeratorPaid - Annual
Dang! Hate that the post is gone. I really appreciate your thoughts.December 2, 2017 at 10:08 pm #38610
Same type of trade as matt adams. Go get a high upside high bonus guy with power who is decently far away and might have the light turn on… But maybe had an off year.
If you make five of these trades and one works out you look like a genius. Individual trades could seem pretty stupid though.
I like the trend… But people are wondering what they’re thinking without looking at the bigger picture.
Here’s a hint. Yepez, O’Neill and now woodman. What do they all have in common.
Hint: talent and in most cases power.
All it takes is one of the three being a three or four time all star and the cards win those deals cumulatively… Hands down.
We are basically flipping average players for lottery tickets with high upside. Play enough and odds are you win.
It is also how you keep long term depth when youre going to start flipping outfielders.
There it is. It’s still visible on page one of this thread.December 3, 2017 at 12:44 am #38613
No… It was after that.
Right before I posted saying it was gone. It disappeared so I said something.
Ill repost it differently but well… My brain is gone at midnight lol
Sosa, edman etc are close enough that even if dejong doesnt pan out we are fine long term. If he does, then diaz is not playing ahead of wong. At that point, he is taking a roster spot we can better use elsewhere.
So what is he worth? It is worth nothing because other organizations know we have no leverage (same as adams). You get a high end lottery ticket for that, you win… Because the alternative is getting nada.
I was stream of consciousness thinking it could also have been a trade just to clear the pipeline a bit… The organization seems to have learned the lesson about trying to hold onto every one — recipe for failure.
You have to prune, reload, and then push forward.
Having said all that about it not being a trade precursor… This would mean to me they would be more willing to trade sierra, bader and/or arozarena… Because he fills a similar niche if he hits.December 3, 2017 at 4:49 am #38614
Got it. Sorry I thought that was it.December 3, 2017 at 12:33 pm #3863414NyquisTParticipant
It seems to me that the Cards will be needing that 40-man roster spot soon. Maybe we have an INFer coming our way and it was Diaz’ spot that became expendable. I would have given Diaz’ more time to sort out his fall from grace and TOR may have gotten a huge bargain. I believe it isn’t as important which prospect that you get in return as freeing room on the 40. Trades like this will always make you feel like the team lost out.
IMO, it’s probably a 20:1 shot that a prospect like Woodman will even see MLB action.December 3, 2017 at 12:45 pm #38636
Studies show an average second round pick has a 49% chance to play in major league baseball. Id say his career so far suggest he is in the other 51%, but maybe a change of scenery turns the light bulb on.December 3, 2017 at 3:26 pm #38648858booyahParticipantFree
You know this reeks of this team wanting to get him out of NL so they would be haunted if he bounces back. Which is won’t if he can’t change his plate approach. Lord knows you can’t trade another player to San Diego and get to choose from that rich farm system.
The 40 man spot was a given if the intent was dealing him. I’m not saying that this bozo we traded for can’t turn it around but it appears to be a move to clear a roster spot but more like we didn’t want him in the same league and we can pinch some pennies in the process.
Where does this kid rank in the top 40 if he were to be eligible?December 4, 2017 at 8:40 am #38678
Lower end or so.
But considering that our top 25 would make an absurdly good aaa team that isnt saying much bad about him.
…And yes, I realize that we pretty much had and will have again an absurdly good aaa team. That was kinda my point. We have an absurd amount of depth and if he finds his stroke he will fit right in with the rest.December 4, 2017 at 8:48 am #38679
This deal was what it was, a complete dump of a player…sorry but I don’t see any upside at all from a 22 year old in A ball striking out in almost 1/2 of his AB’s…December 4, 2017 at 9:02 am #38680
That is your right of course…
The fact that he plays good defense and plays center where less offense is necessary is of course irrelevant.
The fact that he played in the offensively challenged midwest league couldnt have suppressed anything. Nope. Or maybe he needs new contacts like pham did.
Ignore the fact that half of second rounders make the bigs.
Nope… No talent there at all just strikeouts. Nevermind that diaz was never going to get much because other teams could look at our roster situation and do the math. Just concentrate on one stat and throw a tantrum. That’s a smart way to make decisions.December 4, 2017 at 9:17 am #38681
Mo all about dumb ways to make trades though just like this one.December 4, 2017 at 9:22 am #38682BlackHillsCardParticipantFree
Offensively challenged Midwest league? That’s a lot spin.December 4, 2017 at 9:31 am #38683
Yep. It is dumb.
1. We needed a 40 man spot for some kind of move. Doesn’t really matter what… But I’m assuming it is for stanton or another big bat. Which we need. Badly.
2. Dejong, sosa, and edman in the upper minors or bigs at short. Wong, gyorko, and seferina at second. The word expendable comes to mind. And don’t think other teams don’t know that which drives whatever value diaz had waaaaay down. It is called roster pruning for a reason.
3. We get a high end lottery ticket who struggled. Maybe we can fix him in which case we just got a guy like bader with a better arm. If not, we needed the space.
.. But yeah… It was stupid. Or something.
P.s. Blackhillscard — Midwest league aint much better than the fsl… Look it up. Peoria is a frickin tomb to hit in… Not sure about lansing. It is why I will give a guy like carlson major points for surviving that league at 18.
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