Home › The Cardinal Nation Forums › Open Forum › 2023 StL Game #24: Tuesday, April 25 at Giants
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April 25, 2023 at 6:09 pm #217675
Mo is the “elephant in the room” as far as taking blame for the early woes of this club. His reputation as a baseball CEO is very high. Yet his last few years of poor trades, maybe even some that will go down as “Top 10 Worst Cardinal trades”, and the manager-go-round where he picks yet another insider with no experience.
But it would likely take at least a couple of years of significantly-below-expectations play for Mo to be shown the door, as Euro opined. However, he is the one where the buck stops when it comes to the team’s record.
April 25, 2023 at 6:16 pm #217676There was an article on MSNBC (or some place) that said the Cardinal woes were because of Willson Contreras. Something about he’s the reason the pitching is so bad.
I hardly believe that one.
April 25, 2023 at 6:19 pm #217677No Walker or Dejong.
April 25, 2023 at 6:20 pm #217678Losing sucks. Every time you see a team lose a lot, the hole just feels bigger and bigger and the attitudes get worse and worse, which many times breeds even more losing. Because what happens to the players is the same thing that is happening here and amongst every other message board. People are trying to point out the one cause of all that losing as if they can just eliminate that and all will be right again. And honestly, sometimes that truly does work. Not because there really ever was just one cause. It’s not logical that Ollie is really the sole cause of our losing (or Mo or DeWitt either). It works for the same reason the losing was not working. Because many times it really is all psychological. When you feel like you’re a winner, you’re more likely to win. When your team is hot and playing well, it is much more likely to stay that way. And when you’re losing, you often keep mostly losing unless something fundamentally changes. Either someone needs to be fired or one player needs to do something courageous or someone needs to come out of nowhere to suddenly be a surprise hero. Because otherwise it’s just all of us and all of them pointing fingers at every possible cause of this losing, which just continues on the losing. This is just where we are. We are losing not because we traded away all our good players and kept the bad ones nor because our owner is too cheap nor because our starters went from average to terrible. We’re losing because it has become our mindset to keep conjuring up a million causes for our situation rather than just stepping up and overcoming it. The players feel this too right now. So we either need a leader, a sacrifice, or a savior. Or somehow everyone just needs to forget about it and believe in the team. But the latter isn’t likely to happen. So here we sit.
Honestly, my hope is that Jack’s yelling incident and subsequent 180 two nights ago was that step. It may have inspired Monty with the guts he showed last night. Now we just need a similar situation on offense against a good pitcher. But that’s just my hope – that what Jack did somehow infected the pitchers.
That’s my stream of consciousness . . .
April 25, 2023 at 6:25 pm #217679I thoroughly agree, Bikemike. However, Johnny’s untouchable at the moment and has been for some time now. That’s the solitary reason I don’t squander any time or effort thinking about him exiting the stage. I confine my thought’s on him exclusively to the humorous sort, of which there are many. I really enjoy hearing him talk and his overall appearance and facial expressions when he does so are equally entertaining. And I find Billy Jr. to be in the same bracket of subtle comedy. At any rate, if I don’t laugh, I’ll cry and someone may see me…Haha!
April 25, 2023 at 6:27 pm #217680If Marmol’s misguided handling of O’Neill is the reason we are 9-14 I would be surprised. I am not defending how he handled it but at some point these guys making $15M to $30M per year need to man up and decide to play some ball instead of pouting because they got their feelings hurt. It’s a good thing Bobby Knight isn’t our manager.
As others have said the buck should stop with those making the ultimate decisions in constructing the roster and that isn’t in the dugout.
April 25, 2023 at 6:31 pm #217681When I saw guys using pine tar in a spray can I just hung my head. I knew it was over. If it was Contreras who brought it with him from Wrigley, I wouldn’t be a bit surprised.
April 25, 2023 at 6:33 pm #217682I agree, Jnevel. Mr. Jack really demonstrated that he was weary of the current climate. As soon as I saw his temperament as he strode to the dugout I mentioned that sometimes you have to get mad at them eggs.
April 25, 2023 at 6:35 pm #217683Haha! Yep, the old pine tar in the spray can trick will sink the entire fleet every time!
April 25, 2023 at 6:47 pm #2176841td or Jnevel (or anybody else who knows),
Since you brought it up, what or who was Jack upset with? I couldn’t tell based on what I saw. If it was later clarified, I missed it.
April 25, 2023 at 6:49 pm #217686One day off is a day off, but what is two days off? Walker not in the lineup again.
April 25, 2023 at 6:52 pm #217687Let’s take a gander at the out-of-town scoreboard.
Texas leading the Reds 5-0 in the 5th at Riverfront.
The Padres and Cubs just getting started at Wrigley Field.
The Pirates up on the Doyers 7-2 in the 5th at Three Rivers Stadium.
Houston and Tampa Bay are scoreless in the 2nd down in the Tampa/St. Pete area.
r/Esteemed Rat
April 25, 2023 at 6:59 pm #217688I’m not entirely certain, Euro, but it looked like he glanced back in the direction of a Seattle baserunner before he strode to dugout after the 3rd out K. Maybe the runner was chirping a little from 2B. Although he didn’t say anything to him, he gave Soto almost the identical sneer when he faced him in a game during one of his rare turns last season. Mr. Jack has the ability to take on the persona of an angry young man. If he can meter it, that may not be a bad thing.
April 25, 2023 at 7:01 pm #217689Man, those Pirates. I noticed that they played well in that 4 game push in StL, but not that well…
April 25, 2023 at 7:07 pm #217690I see it is Oviedo again, turning in another nice performance for the Bucs on the Three Rivers mound (or is it Forbes Field?).
April 25, 2023 at 7:08 pm #217691I genuinely like the reference to “Three River’s Stadium.” Two very good teams played in that venue back in the 70’s. I always thought that the image of Jack Lambert with his intimidating grill was one of the most iconic in the history of the NFL. It’s a shame that league has long since lost it’s heyday luster. I liked the names of the older venues and could remember them all. The names stuck back then instead of changing with the most recently printed dollar bill.
April 25, 2023 at 7:12 pm #217692Something off with this team. My take is Marmol is not doing this team any favors with his lineup construction. Point is case why put Gorman in the third slot? He is 22 having a good year after a so so 2022. I don’t think he is cut out for batting third. I think 5th suits him better. Contreras needs to calm down. I know he is trying to impress but bring it down a notch. Arenado looks out of sorts. The pitching will be better but not great. I think Flaherty and Montgomery will be the best of the lot.
April 25, 2023 at 7:15 pm #217693Yeah, I do not care for the corporate-named stadiums as they change all the time, and you don’t know what venue is being referenced.
Back in the day here in our little neck of the woods we had “Bears Stadium”. The minor league Bears played there, then the Broncos. But then the Broncos became bigger than the Bears and it was renamed “Mile High Stadium”. Still not bad.
Now the name changes every few years as a coporate sponsor gets the rights, with “at Mile High Stadium” tagged on at the end to give it a more familiar and cozy sound.
April 25, 2023 at 7:24 pm #217694Busch Stadium has to be the longest running company/product named stadium by a wide margin.
April 25, 2023 at 7:42 pm #217695Exactly, Oliver. I have no qualms with moving him up in the line-up while he’s swinging it well and I went so far as to suggest it a couple of weeks ago. Walker too. Slot him 5th or maybe even clean-up, but to place him in the slot that belongs to an established, elite hitter is manifest stupidity on two accounts. You not only place all kinds of unnecessary pressure on a young player who seems to be on the verge of really establishing himself, but it also removes the reigning NL MVP from the most important slot in the order. It’s patent nonsense. He’s got to go.
April 25, 2023 at 7:48 pm #217696Where the heck is Walker
April 25, 2023 at 7:48 pm #217697I’d say so, Bling. And I’d also say that only the long in the tooth locals identify with a big difference in the name Busch Stadium and Busch Memorial Stadium. On my first visit to the former, I immediately noticed a tremendous difference in the overall atmosphere and feel of the 2 venues.
April 25, 2023 at 7:50 pm #217698Indeed Rats – when did the name change, 1953? Time have sure changed. When Augie bought the club, he wanted to rename Sportsman’s Park to “Budweiser Park”. But the Lords of Baseball, as Dick Young used to refer the owners, did not like the idea of a Stadium named after an alcoholic product.
So Augie named it after himself, then came up with “Busch Bavarian” beer, a lower cost pale lager similar to Budweiser.
Although beer sponsorships were common in ball parks back then, putting a stadium name after a beer was crossing the line. Now we are at a point where alcohol is part of the venue as it a terrific revenue generator. Stadiums are creating areas appealing to younger fans who can flirt and drink while the game is going on.
And not only that, we have instant wager apps where most anyone of legal age can bet on about any aspect of the game they choose. Maybe the day will come when we see a book titled “Eight Men Back In (and Charley Hustle Too!)”.
April 25, 2023 at 7:53 pm #217699Walker? His business rep probably told him to head for the hills before his reputation is tarnished…
April 25, 2023 at 7:53 pm #217700It was named ‘Memorial’ to differentiate from the the previous Busch Stadium on Grand Ave. I am not sure when Sportsman’s Park officially adopted the name Busch Stadium, but I don’t think any of the locals actually called it that.
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